Get a good , close look at the e-unit. Inspect the contact 'fingers' to see that they have enough tension, are making good contact with the drum, and that they are not worn or pitted. Inspect the drum to see that it also is not worn or have burn marks on it. Replace contacts and / or drum as needed.
Make sure that the armature shaft bearings and axle bearings have been cleaned and are lubricated also.
Larry
Check the brushes and the springs. I would replace them. Another common problem with this motor is it requires a small bit of lube on the upper shaft, check the up/down motion of the armature, it should just be loose enough to turn freely..
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Thanks. I have removed the brush plate and armature and cleaned and lubricated everything. I don't think it's an e-unit contact problem. The drum looks just fine. If I slowly increase track voltage, at about 80% of max suddenly it appears that something shifts or kicks in and the grinding sound stops and it takes off like new, sounding like new. A guy who says he has repaired a lot of these MPC locos says the armature probably is not positioned just right and that he has fixed a lot of these locos with this problem. These MPC motors were manufactured poorly with tolerances not fine enough. That makes sense, if the armature shaft bearing in the brush plate is worn that would explain it.
The armature is dry. Lube(and I mean with grease - Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2 or another extreme HP synthetic lithium based grease) the worm, the worm wheel, and the top of the armature(small dollop in the well below the set screw) and use a very thin coating on the spur gears. With synthetic oil, lube all shafts, bearings, & bushings sparingly.
The Lucas will take up some slop in the armature if it is worn to that point.
Rob
Thanks. Brushes look quite good and the springs are quite strong. I have removed the brush plate and armature and cleaned and lubricated everything. I would like to check the up/down (and lateral) motion of the armature but it is nearly completely inaccessible when the motor is assembled. I can poke a toothpick through the brush holes to the commutator and that's about it. I can turn the wheels and watch the gears and it feels as though there MIGHT be too much up/down motion in the armature, but when I do the same thing with my brand new 2344 NYC Conventional Classic it feels exactly the same. If I slowly increase track voltage, at about 80% of max suddenly it appears that something shifts or kicks in and the grinding sound stops and it takes off like new, sounding like new. A guy who says he has repaired a lot of these MPC locos says the armature probably is not positioned just right and that he has fixed a lot of these locos with this problem. These MPC motors were manufactured poorly with tolerances not fine enough. That makes sense, if the armature shaft bearing in the brush plate is worn that would explain it.
Thanks for the Lucas comment. I did not know that! I lubed everything with new Lionel lubricant and that did not help. I have posed what a train repair person told me. Makes sense, but who knows? If I can find that Lucas lube I'll try that, although the repair guy did not mention a worn worm. That was my first guess also as the worm and gear that it drives were dry when I took the armature out.
Look at the very top of the protruding part of the brushplate: see if it accepts a small allen wrench. (I want to say, 3/64"?) Some of these motors have a sort of top bearing which can be screwed in or out to govern the vertical play of the armature. Not sure about MPC motors, but our LTI Dash-8s have this.
Does the engine run more smoothly in one direction? With the vertical worm drives, in one direction, the armature is being pulled down into the chassis, and in the other it wants to buck up against the brushplate. If that's what's happening (and if there is no top bearing adjustment) maybe stiffer brush springs will help keep the armature shaft seated properly. Another thing to try would be a TINY bit of grease on the commutator face just where it meets the armature shaft, to smooth things out in case the commutator is riding up on the underside of the brushplate. (I have seen some motors where there is a little metal bushing or washer on the underside of the brushplate here.) Be careful with the grease though, or you could gum up the whole commutator.
Thank you, very interesting possibilities. There is such a peak in the brushplate but I never would have guessed that there could be an adjustment there. I'll check that plus all your other suggestions. But I won't have time for a few days. I'll let you know what happens.
Under that setscrew, there is a ball bearing that rides between the screw and the armature. You should put a drop of oil in there, then tighten down the setscrew until there is just a very small amount of up/down play in the armature when you try to move the wheels forward and backwards.
gunrunnerjohn, There is a screw there adjustable via allen wrench. My set goes from .036 (too small) to .05 (too large) so I'll have to find something in between. Your estimate of 3/64, which is .0469, just might be right on. Maybe I'll get to this tomorrow. Thanks!
After you get the motor right, add a few oz.s of fishing weights [lead] to make it get better traction. I use to pull the fuel tank and put them in there. I use to take three, weight them and tether them together to one E unit. Really pull then.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
If weight is desired, try these "tape-a-weights"(we used to call them) available at Harbor Freight:
ADCX Rob If weight is desired, try these "tape-a-weights"(we used to call them) available at Harbor Freight:
Rob, thanks for the "heads up" on those weights.
nickaix, thanks a million!!! This fixed it! I happened to have 2 identical tool kits, each with 2 small allen wrenches, .05 (too large) and .036 (too small). 3/64 is about .0469 so you were right about that. I couldn't find a 3/64 anywhere, except online for about $9, so I finally got smart and filed one of the .05's down until it would just fit.
I was suprised at how far I had to turn the screw, and then that there seemed to be an optimal point for best operation -- not too loose, not too tight. But now it's as good as new. Wow, thanks again!
You're welcome! glad I could help!
Hi ChiefEagles, thanks for the idea. Even with the motor fixed, this runs out of power before traction is a problem. It will pull about 15-20 MPC freight cars with ease and that's about all I ever do with it. I bought it new 30+ years ago when my sons were toddlers so it has some sentimental value. I put a light in the dark end. I think it looks great buzzing around the track. Linking 3 of them together must give a lot of power. I use my twin-motor F3's for serious hauling.
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