Lionel Solid-Rail Track "T-Rail" ?

[steve24944]

I picked up a copy of CTT Lionel's Showroom Layouts this weekend and read half of it last night.  Love the pictures of the old layouts.  I have a well worn copy of K-Lines Track Layout and Accessory Manual (1979) and now I know where the picture on page 47 came from. 

My question is about the Solid Rail or "T-Rail" talked about in the Showroom Layout Story.  Was that track only made for the show room layouts ?  Was it hand-laid track ?  Wood ties ? they don't look like the typical metal ties used for O-31 track.  See picture on pg 34 that gives a good close-up detail of the track. I think I see a fish plate rail joiner.  That track looks great !    The story does not go into any detail about the construction  method used to lay the track and switches..  Anybody have any  information to add ?

Also - the picture on page 33 showing the use of the remote control accessories. With all the care put into building the layout - why was the wire for the controller laying across the track and not run under the layout as was the wiring for the switches ?

I hope that as I slowly work on building my layout that my track will look that good some day.  I have been working on adding wood ties and experimenting with ballast to my tubular O-Gauge track.

Steve

[cwburfle]

This site has some pictures and information on T-rail. I think it will probably answer all your questions.  You will need to click around the various links to see everything.

http://www.t-railtrack.com/

[steve24944]

Wow - Thanks for the link - I did not know about that.  So the ties were steel ties.   The track  and switches look good - but at those prices a layout could add up to big bucks $$   Any body out there on this forum using this T-Rail track  ?

Steve

[phillyreading]

I am not sure how old but T-rail was an older track system before 027 became popular. However T-rail is expensive because it is no longer produced, could have been a pre-war(before WW1)track system. You used nuts & bolts to assemble the T-rail tracks, even the curves had to be bolted together. T-rail is NOT a handlaid track! T-rail was factory produced and sold to the public as well as used on some showroom layouts. Most likely it didn't become very popular because of using nuts & bolts to put sections of track together with.

[cwburfle]

So the ties were steel ties.

The ties weren't steel. They were Zamac. Among the information posted at the site referenced above was a warning to check the dimensions of each tie to determine whether they were expanding. Zamac castings of that period are sometimes found with Zinc rot.  Zamac alloy is sensitive to impurities, which causes the castings to become brittle, expand, and/or crack.
The problems were straighhtened out in the prewar era, but bouts of Zinc rot problems do crop up from time to time. Postwar transformer control posts are sometimes found with bad castings. One of my MPC era EP-5 electrincs had bad sideframe castings on the pickup truck. I beleive some folks wrote about bad casting on other modern era peices by other manufacturers too.

I am not certain where the reference to 027 came from. A lot of folks place the origins for 027 track with Lionel's "Winner" line of trains (1930), which would predate Lionel's entry into the world of scale trains.
I am not positive, but I beleive the Winner line came from Ives, after Lionel took control of that company.

[phillyreading]

Zinc has a lot of problems because you must strain it properly when it is hot, during the smelting stage, before you put it into a casting. Also the castings have to be extremely clean before each use. Most people in the metal industry call zinc a pot, el cheapo, metal because it has a lot of problems.

[wrmcclellan]

Steve,

As you read further in the book you will find they simply laid controllers on the layout for certain marketing/product photos as the accessory was not permanently installed in that location. If you look caerfully in one photo the ends of the wires are visible in the background of the picture.

This is a great book. I pick it up over and over.

[cwburfle]

phillyreading

Zinc has a lot of problems because you must strain it properly when it is hot, during the smelting stage, before you put it into a casting. Also the castings have to be extremely clean before each use. Most people in the metal industry call zinc a pot, el cheapo, metal because it has a lot of problems.[

 

ZAMAC is not pure zinc. It has small amounts of other metals added that create alloys with different characteristics.  As I wrote earlier, the alloy is sensitive to impurities. Here is a manufacturers web site, describing the material.

http://www.eazall.com/diecastalloys.aspx

And some more interesting stuff:

http://www.zincbig.com/content/getZincElem.asp
http://www.zincbig.com/

[steve24944]

Thanks for the additional input and comments -  learn something about metallurgy today.

[martinden]

T-rail was introduced in 1935 (or perhaps 1936). Peter Riddle says 1935 in Greenberg, and David Doyle says 1935 one place and 1936 in another. Either one is a surprise to me. Until I started checking, I had always thought that it was brought out in 1937 to accomodate the small flanges on the 700E and other scale equipment. Apparently not; I wonder why it came out earlier.
-----------------------------

Following up on cwburfle's post about O-27, the sequence went something like this: Lionel and American Flyer bought Ives in the middle of 1928 at a bankruptcy sale. At some point a couple of years later, AF sold its half to Lionel. Meanwhile, Lionel continued some Ives items as "Lionel-Ives."  In 1931, with the Depression deepening, Lionel set up a separate company to make (cheap) Winner trains, which were somehow or other derivred from certain Ives items (but I'm completely unclear on just what Ives models were transformed into Winner items and what was done to modify them). Winner apparently used the same Ives track; this eventually came to be called "O-27" track.

After a couple of years, they dropped Winner (Cowan himself supposedly despised whole "cheap train" idea), and replaced it with Lionel Jr. In 1936 or '37, Cowan decided to call this smaller, generally cheaper, line of trains "O-27," the "27" coming from the diameter of the circle measured between the outer tips of the ties and then rounded up. (Presumably to make it seem as big as possible.) What we now call "O-31" was then simply known as "O" or "O gauge."

Martin

[lionelsoni]

It's not necessary to "round up" the O27 diameter.  The radius is exactly 12 1/2 inches, and the ties are exactly 2-inches long.  (Modern O27 ties are 1/16-inch shorter.)

There is rounding in the modern "O31" designation, however.  The radius is 10 * sqrt(2) = 14.142 inches, and the ties are 1 1/4-inches long, making the track "O30.534", which does round to O31, although it is almost as close to O30, which is why we sometimes see it called that.

[nickaix]

martinden

T-rail was introduced in 1935 (or perhaps 1936). Peter Riddle says 1935 in Greenberg, and David Doyle says 1935 one place and 1936 in another. Either one is a surprise to me. Until I started checking, I had always thought that it was brought out in 1937 to accomodate the small flanges on the 700E and other scale equipment. Apparently not; I wonder why it came out earlier.

Lionel's streamliners were made for O72 track, I believe. Can't remember which years they were produced, but if they predate the Hudson, that would explain it.

[cwburfle]

The big Union Pacific steamliner needed 072 track, but I beleive they run on tinplate 072, and don't require T-rail track.
As far as I know, they came:
in three piece and four piece sets (not counting the vestibules)
in silver or brown/yellow paint schemes
with and without whistles (mounted in the power unit when present)

The City of Denver streamliner runs on standard "031" track, as does the Flying Yankee and other small streamline sets, such as the Blue Stream.

[phillyreading]

cwburfle

phillyreading:

Zinc has a lot of problems because you must strain it properly when it is hot, during the smelting stage, before you put it into a casting. Also the castings have to be extremely clean before each use. Most people in the metal industry call zinc a pot, el cheapo, metal because it has a lot of problems.[

 

ZAMAC is not pure zinc. It has small amounts of other metals added that create alloys with different characteristics.  As I wrote earlier, the alloy is sensitive to impurities. Here is a manufacturers web site, describing the material.

http://www.eazall.com/diecastalloys.aspx

And some more interesting stuff:

http://www.zincbig.com/content/getZincElem.asp
http://www.zincbig.com/

I was commenting on zinc not Zamac, as I didn't know about it before.

[martinden]

Lionel's 752E M-10000 (often called the "City of Portland") was introduced in 1934, just months after the prototype made its debut. At the same time Lionel introduced "Model Builder Track," which is the tubular 72" diameter track that came to be called  "072" (a couple of years later). The 752E flanges didn't need "scale" T-rail.

Martin

[DMUinCT]

A check of my Lionel Catalogs shows the O-72  "New, Model Builders Solid Rail Track" first cataloged on page 24 of the 1935 catalog.     The O-72 sets that year used "Tubular" track.

In 1936 it was again listed and had a picture of the track connection (bolted together with "Fish Plates").

1937 was the introduction of the Scale Hudson, the 700E, and it included a Display Track with Solid Rail on it.   Page 23 shows "The Rail Chief" passenger set pulled by the Scale Hudson, this was the first set to include a loop of O-72 Soild Rail.

The Track can be found at large Train Shows such as YORK, you should bring lots of money.   While the Rails and Fish Plates servive, the Zamac cast Ties often have turned to dust.  The demand is high as it is the best way to display a Scale Hudson Locomotive, pre or post war.