kblester ALL ABOARD!!!!!!!!! American Flyer Number 312 has left the Station, enroute to all Christmas past and memory lanes everywhere. It was overwhelming. Thanks for all your help. Ken and Family
ALL ABOARD!!!!!!!!!
American Flyer Number 312 has left the Station, enroute to all Christmas past and memory lanes everywhere.
It was overwhelming.
Thanks for all your help.
Ken and Family
Not so fast, Ken.
We need photos, videos, etc.
Most importantly, is it smoking???
Rich
Alton Junction
Glad you got your train running again.
May all your memories be good ones, and all your signals be clear.
Merry Christmas to all.
Larry
Hi Everyone,
This is getting close. Was almost complete when I broke the fiber finger board for the top set of fingers. I think I will gorilla glue the break which was off center in a safe spot. I think I will have to use an external clamp of some sort in order to hold the frame together.
I am going to have this running on Christmas even if Santa has to stay all night. On another note; number 2 son told me tonight he wished he had trains up and running under the tree for his daughter. Ah, The circle of life goes on.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!
Ken
kblester Bob, Larry, Ray, Rich, Stay with me guys, this is strarting to be fun again. Motor now runs like a top. All is tight and no sliding in frame. One bent finger, and two with holes need work. Unit will not run without tender on track. No electrical P/U in boiler? "C" clip or tiny hog ring I now believe is a homemade lock washer from my Dad"s hand. An electrical engineer he was always inventing something. I will try to check back tonight. Ken
Bob, Larry, Ray, Rich,
Stay with me guys, this is strarting to be fun again. Motor now runs like a top. All is tight and no sliding in frame. One bent finger, and two with holes need work. Unit will not run without tender on track. No electrical P/U in boiler? "C" clip or tiny hog ring I now believe is a homemade lock washer from my Dad"s hand. An electrical engineer he was always inventing something.
I will try to check back tonight.
All right, Ken, time is up.
Stop baking Christmas cookies, and give us a progress report on your rehab project.
This thread is great. Ken......are you shooting for the engine and tender to be fully operational for Christmas? I think the odds are beginning to swing in your favor!!!!!
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
TrainLarry Repairing trains is fun.
Repairing trains is fun.
Ken,
Glad you are able to get your locomotive running, and are having a fun time with this. American Flyer steam locomotives with tenders will not run without the tender, because that is where the electricity gets picked up - through the wheels of the tender. Now it's time to get that e-unit functioning again. Now the real fun begins. Follow advice given to salvage the old contacts, or replace them.
How about the smoke unit? Is it working?
I was quite surprised to see that a little smoke actually was coming out of the smoke stack when I first ran the engine right out of storage after 40 or more years. And, that was without adding any smoke fluid. It wasn't long, however, before the smoke stopped, and I wound up replacing the old wick and coil with a new one.
Let us know what is going on, if anything, with the smoke unit. Mine now smokes like the real deal.
kblester Unit will not run without tender on track. No electrical P/U in boiler?
Unit will not run without tender on track. No electrical P/U in boiler?
Correct, there are no pick ups on the engine itself.
One way to get power to the motor is to run wires from the other two leads on the jack panel to the pickup points on the tender after first connecting the jumper wire to the other two leads on the jack panel.
Another way is to put the engine up on blocks and then run wires from the other two leads on the jack panel to the rails on the track and then apply power from the transformer.
I prefer the second method so that you can study the operation of the motor in place and without the need to have the tender on the track.
So far, so good. Glad to hear that the motor is running good and that the motor is tightly secured in place. I had wondered if that C-clip was something homemade. I simply cannot recall any such device in my 312.
Keep us posted.
lionelsoni On the other hand, what is there to lose? If the rejuvination fails, the fallback is new fingers anyway.
On the other hand, what is there to lose? If the rejuvination fails, the fallback is new fingers anyway.
Bob,
That certainly is correct. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I was only trying to head off any disappointment and frustration on behalf of the OP.
But, I will concede that an attempt to repair the reversing unit, assuming that the copper fingers are the problem, by adjusting the fingers as you suggested has some merit. I recall that, as I did that myself two years ago, I was able to get the reversing unit to respond, albeit sporadically.
So, we have advised the OP, and forewarned the OP, let's see how he responds.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni It's not hard to get a second life out of a finger when it wears out. Just remove the outer half of the C-shaped fingertip, if it hasn't already fallen off. Then flatten the 90-degree bend between what remains of the C and the straight part of the finger, to about 45 degrees. This will lengthen the finger overall almost to its original length. It will also expose a new part of the C to rub on the drum.
It's not hard to get a second life out of a finger when it wears out. Just remove the outer half of the C-shaped fingertip, if it hasn't already fallen off. Then flatten the 90-degree bend between what remains of the C and the straight part of the finger, to about 45 degrees. This will lengthen the finger overall almost to its original length. It will also expose a new part of the C to rub on the drum.
I know that some experienced AF guys do that, but I would not recommend it to the OP who would be a novice at this type of repair. Initially, I tried it and failed miserably, only frustrating myself in the process.
My advice to the OP is that if he finds that the fingers have holes in them, buy a set or two of replacement fingers. It simply is not worth the aggravation and frustration.
Hi Ken,
Looks like Larry and Rich have helped you out with great advice. Last night I was tuning up the revese unit on my 302. The contacts and the drum were a bit dirty and with a little bit of cleaning it cycled flawlessly. Just take a close look at those fingers as mentioned before and if you are going to replace them or even clean them be gentle as the fingers and the fiber boards are easily damaged.
Are you able to post a picture of the "C" clip you mentioned? I'm not sure what you're refering to.
Good luck and keep posting your progress.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
You didn't specifically mention if you used the jumper wire to get the loco running, but I assume that you did. As TrainLarry has indicated, that is all that it takes to run the locomotive around the track, no additional wires required. During the early rehab stage with my 312, I simply tied the tender to the engine with a piece of string, so that the loco "towed" the tender.
It is not normal for the motor to slide back and forth. Get out the screw driver and tighten everything down. Also, look for missing screws. You can easily spot any open threaded holes indicating a missing screw.
With the shell removed from the tender, examine the reversing unit. The first thing to look for is a hole in the end of the copper finger that makes contact with the metal drum. There are four copper fingers, two sets of two, that make contact with the drum to complete a four cycle motion - forward, pause, reverse,pause. If you look closely at the finger at the point where it makes contact with the drum, it is spoon shaped. As a result of continued usage, a hole can wear in the middle of the spoon, interrupting electrical contact. If you don't see any holes in the fingers, are they making full contact with the drum?
These copper fingers can be replaced. There are several sources for replacement. The fingers are mounted on a fiber board which is held in place by placing the boards over metal tabs and then twisting the tabs with snip nosed pliers to hold the finger boards in place. There are two fingers on a board, and there are two boards of fingers. The fingers are strategically placed to perform the forward and reverse functions as they make contact with the drum.
Another thing to consider is to clean and lubricate the drum and fingers. This can be done in one step with a spray can on electrical contact cleaner available for a few bucks at Radio Shack. Spraying the drum and finger assemblies will free up any binding parts and produce a clean drum.
Typically, though, even if you clean an old reversing unit, the fingers still need to be adjusted or replaced. I had to replace the fingers on my 312, because three out of four had holes in the spoon portion of the finger.
Even though I was able to repair the reversing unit, my skills were not so great that the unit performed flawlessly. Sometimes it worked fine. Other times, it didn't want to work right. I finally gave up and replaced the reversing unit with a Dallee Electronic Reversing Unit. I resisted that at first because I wanted to retain the vintage unit in its original condition. But common sense prevailed. With the shell on the tender, what's the difference? You can't see it anyhow. Now, it performs flawlessly, just like when it was new.
You can also replace the wiring harness if that is the problem. However, my educated guess is that the wiring harness is fine. It is made out of braided wire which seems indestructible. At worst, you may need to resolder any loose wires or broken solder contacts. I wound up replacing my wire harness but only because I had foolishly cut the wire when I was replacing the reversing unit.
Hope this all helps. Keep us posted.
Larry,
This is great news. I think I will try the repairs, and I can always go to Nicholas Smith Trains for parts if needed. Looks like we may get this going yet.
Have a good week. Ken
Good to see that you got the motor to run again. Nothing should be sliding back and forth while running. Everything should be tight. It seems you may have a problem with the reverse unit. The lever in the "open" position keeps the reverse unit from cycling, and is used to lock the loco in one position, usually forward. In the "closed" position, the reverse unit will cycle through forward, neutral, reverse, neutral, forward, etc. when you turn the power off and on. The reverse unit can be repaired; usually the contacts wear out and need replacement. The drum gets replaced also if worn. Look at the unit closely and see if the contacts are touching the drum firmly. You report the unit cycles, which is good. Look very closely at the wiring harness where it connects to the reverse unit, and also at the plug end for broken wires, or only 1 strand of wire holding in place. Cut, strip and resolder when in doubt.
The loco can be made to run with just the jumper wire, but you have to see which direction it runs. If it runs in reverse, switch the jumper to the other 2 jacks.
Thanks Rich,
Keep us posted,
Many Thanks to Larry and Rich for comming to the rescue.
After a bunch of balky starts I was able to get the motor to run again. The light works, and I did remember the Choo- Choo sound. Still not running with tender in place. Can the reverse unit be repaired, or should I replace it? What function does the lever under the tender have when open or grounded?
Another question; is it normal for the frame / motor unit to slide back and forth (width of screw slots)while running? Could I run wires from the pickup wipers direct to boiler with the jumper in place in order to power the engine on the track?
Thanks, Ken
This thread reminds me of two years ago at this very time when I pulled my AF 312 out of storage for the first time in 45 + years to run into the same problems.
TrainLarry's advice is dead on, and I recommend that you follow it to the letter.
I don't recall any C-shaped wire retaining clip either, not sure where that came from.
The bulb may simply be burned out. To test it, remove it from its base and place a small gauge wire against the base of the bulb and another wire to the metal side of the bulb while touching the other ends of the wires to a 9 volt battery. If the bulb glows, it is still good. Otherwise, it needs to be replaced.
Yes, you can freely turn the armature. No, you cannot freely spin the driver wheels.
One issue to resolve is whether the transformer is working. Have you tested it ?
When I first pulled my 312 out of storage, it was dead. Nothing. However, the bulb in the loco did light up. I did the jumper test that TrainLarry suggested, and that got the motor running and the loco surging. It turned out that my problem was the reversing unit. The metal contacts touching the drum had holes burned in the center of the contacts.
I wound up replacing the metal contacts, or fingers as I call them, and that did the trick.
I had no problems with the wiring harness. Even 60 years after its manufacture, the wiring harness on that engine was still in good shape.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Possibly a bad connection between the tender and locomotive may be the problem. Unplug the wires connecting the tender to the locomotive. Notice the jack on the back of the cab where you just unplugged the wires from. There are 2 terminals on top, and 2 on the bottom. Fashion a jumper wire, and jump one top to one bottom connection, any way, makes no difference. Now connect the transformer to the remaining 2 terminals and the motor should run. If it does, you may have a wiring problem from the e-unit in the tender to the plug, or you may have a bad e-unit drum or contacts. If the motor does not run, you either have a wiring problem from the jack to the motor, or a motor problem. Hopefully you did not damage the armature when you hooked up power to the brushes.
This will isolate the problem to either the tender or the locomotive.
Don't recall any 'C' clips in these units.
Last running about 1967 or so. I have cleaned motor, gear , drum, and contacts, brushes etc. No gear bind. removed old grease, cleaned wheel wipers. No broken wires, but bulb does not light. Tried direct contact from transformer to brushes, pickup wheels, wipers etc. Drum cycles that's all. Can turn armature which turns wheels but I can't remember if you could turn the wheels freely themselves. It is a smoke in boiler unit. The only odd item is a "C" shaped wire retaining clip that fell out from somewhere inside and there is no grooved pin for it to hold. Everything seems right, but it will not run. His Great Grand Children (and me) would like to see it run again. Have new track, and using a KW for power. Can anyone help, or direct me to a trouble shooting guide? Many Thanks.
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