I have a 2032 Erie Alco set that I rebuilt with a NOS motor and practically new E-unit. Runs great without having to turn the transformer way up except when starting. For some reason it will be starved of power, lights will get bright no noises or binding, jsut needs the transformer cranked to 80 or 90 then all of sudden it will speed up and you have to quickly dial the transormer back. For a few laps though it may randomly stop and again require a shot of power however it doesn't stop completely because it will still be engaged in forward. Very strange, like I said, no binding, no grinding, completely silent. After a few laps it runs perfectly, doesn't get hot, doesn't make any noise, and can pull 8 cars or so with the transformer at a moderate setting (about 50 on a CW-80, not sure what my new to me ZW requires). The problem occurs on both modern CW-80 and old ZW transformer.
I'm curious if this could in any way be related to the horn relay. I ask because my horn relay will randomly get stuck engaged and any time I push the whistle button it will continue to blow for a few seconds aftwards and sometimes get stuck. I don't why the relay would cause these symptoms, but it just seems to be very coincidental.
Without seeing it, can only guess. I'd start with new brushes and SPRINGS. don't skip the new springs part they are as old as the brushes.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
I doubt that the horn relay has anything to do with it. You can fix the horn problem by putting a little piece of tape, like masking tape, between the pole and the armature, to keep the armature from getting quite so close.
Bob Nelson
Did you lube the motor before you installed it? If it is NOS, the grease is probably dried out making the starting friction high. Also, these motors sometimes have a problem with the thrust bearing which makes them hard to start in one direction. The motor must be disassembled to lube both bearings and the worm gear.
If you cannot turn the wheels with your thumb, the motor definitely needs to be lubed.
Thank you everybody for the inputs. The drivetrain on this is as smooth as silk, requires almost no effort to move the wheels in either direction. When running properly it's probably the smoothest running post war engine I have. It seems like the power is just not being fed to the motor evenly when the problem occurs, maybe it's the roller pickup or something.
The reason I brought up the horn relay because on occasion when the problem has occurred, the horn has activated itself and stayed on as if the current is going there instead of the motor. I'm not sure of the mechanism that would cause this, but I have noticed it a few times.
How about a grounding issue, there are no grounding springs on the trucks of the powered unit, I just a got a few to install, but just haven't had the chance, that's the only other potentially obvious cause I can think of, although the light doesn't seem to dim with the motor drain.
Put the grounding springs in first. Run the engine without the shell. When the engine is powered up and does not run, use a toothpick to lightly press down each brush in the brush holder and see if the motor turns. If not, give the e-unit a slight tap. Could be it is not making good contact. If the problem persists, you will need a voltmeter or test lamp to trace the voltage to the motor.
Horn and whistle relays do activate sometimes on momentary interruptions of current. I have seen these horns blow when the locomotive derails. Check for tight joints between track sections, and clean track. Sometimes I think these relays are possessed and have a life of their own! A properly wired relay will not draw power from the motor.
Larry
I don't think a grounding spring is going to help this problem. On a 2032, the motor is grounded to itself, and is solidly attached to the truck assembly. (Put the spring in anyway)I have seen the problem you describe. Likely causes are issues with the brushes, or the e-unit.
In the case of brushes, I'd make certain that the springs have proper tension, and I'd try a fresh pair. It is also very important to make certain that the brush holders are clean. If you have any of the modern era brushes with pigtails, try using those. You'll need to solder the pigtails to the brush holder.
For the e-unit, you'll need to make certain that the drum and contacts are clean. I've had a couple of cases where everything looked nice and clean, but the engine wouldn't run right. In every case, the drum was one of the reproduction drums molded in white plastic. (Lionel sold these too) Using a different drum fixed the problem.
Kind of a dumb question, but do the grounding springs go on top of the chassis or below the chassis, in other words, between truck and chassis or between chassis and screw head or motor for the motor spring?
The grounding springs go between the truck and the frame.
Agreed the motors are grounded through the trucks themselves, but the springs give the e-unit a better ground.
Try to lock the e-unit out in forward and see if the problem occurs. Then try reverse. You want to narrow the problem down step by step.
jsonova99 Kind of a dumb question, but do the grounding springs go on top of the chassis or below the chassis, in other words, between truck and chassis or between chassis and screw head or motor for the motor spring?
Your 2032 only uses one grounding spring. It goes between the pickup truck and the frame. The motor truck dones not use a grounding spring.
I think have this nailed down to the E-unit. I was running it again with the body off and the e-unit cycles however on some cycles it makes what I can best describe as a static electricity sound and has a green glow like something is arcing or something. These are the cycles where you would have to apply a lot of power to get it to move. if you just sit and keep cycling every so many cycles you will get a clean contact and it will go fwd or reverse fine, although not in a row (F-N-R-N) you may have to cycle 10x between a clean fwd and reverse. It look like there might be a burn mark on the drum, fingers look fine. My first thought is that the drum is shot, any thoughts? I'm no expert on e-units, I understand the basic principle on them, but I don't know which contacts are for what and which fingers should be touching at any given time, so I don't know if the drum is warped or anything. Are replacement drums easy to get and install?
Luckily I have a second e-unit for this unit that I am going to put in to see if the problem goes away. It should, this was the unit it originally had, but it was kind of butchered or from a different engine but it worked (Has no lever on it, somebody removed the lever and the board with the contact on it). Anyway, I'm going to try that and see.
It sounds as if the e-unit is the culprit, and the 'fingers' are not making good contact, or as you suggest, the drum contacts may be burned. When you see the problem, take a toothpick and gently push on each finger in turn and see if you can identify which one is causing the problem.
The drums are easy to find; installing one is a different story. E-unit spreader tool ST-303 is needed to spread the sides apart to remove the drum and contacts. Some people use a snap-ring spreading pliers to do the job. After that, you need 3 hands and lots of patience to reassemble the unit. Since you have a spare unit, practice servicing that unit first. Replace any parts that are worn or burned. You may be able to salvage bad parts, but the cost in time and aggravation is not worth it.
A primer on E-units is here.
E-unit spreader tool ST-303 is needed to spread the sides apart to remove the drum and contacts.
Before I owned an E-unit spreader, I used a pair of needlenose pliers to pop the e-unit apart. Happily, ST-303 E-unit spreaders have been reproduced, and sell for somewhere around $3.50 each. In my opinion, for folks who repair E-units, they are worth their weight in gold.
I just went through the same thing with my 2344 set. After taking the shell off and watching it run, I saw the arcing inside the E unit. Replaced that and all is well.
Roger
Put the old e-unit in and everything's appears to be ok. I looked closely at the other e-unit and there is a burn mark on ground bus of the drum as well as a partially burnt off ground finger. Something shorted out I guess. I'll add this to my to-do-list.
Glad you got your loco to work. Just for information, there are no ground connections on the drum. The connections go either to the brushes, or the field winding.
Now is a good time to learn how to service e-units. The fun begins...
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