Lionel Post-War 2466WX and 6466WX Tenders Shorting

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Lionel Post-War 2466WX and 6466WX Tenders Shorting

  • I am trying to restore some 2466WX and 6466WX tenders.  After I have cleaned the motor, brushes, etc. and made sure the trucks were properly wired and all solder joints were set, I put the tender on the track.  The whistle function worked perfectly.  Unfortunately as soon as I moved the tender (didn't matter which one or which direction) the power supply showed a short.

    My layout is a Lionel with TMCC and variable voltage; I use variable voltage when running Post War Lionel.

    My track is Atlas.

    It seems that the whistle is trying to blow, or at least the motor is trying to run, even when the whistle button is not pressed but voltage is applied to the track.  I have not been able to pin down the problem.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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  • Did you replace the wires? Could be cracked Insulation touching the body of the tender frame. Is the wire brittle?

    Disconnect the wire at the whistle motor and see if it still shorts out. that will tell you if it is the wire or the motor.

    Just a guess,

     Kevin

    Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

    Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

     

  • GeorgiaBoy,

    What Kevin mentions is usually the case.

    One of my second hand Post War Lionel tenders had a crack in the insulation, on its wire and for the life of me I couldn't see where the shorting problem was, until the room light was off.

    Depending on the place and temperature of where the post war goodies were stored, some electrical items have cracked insulation, this is due to the type of insulation used at the time.
    Probably, the manufacturers did not expect their product to last so long.

    Then, again, we're talking about the longevity of Lionel products!!! 

    Ralph

  • Some info. on Lionel tenders: Just click on tenders.

    http://www.jwtrains.com/

    Ralph

  • If you do need to replace the wire it takes about 11" of wire for a tender. Jeff at The Train Tender has nice super flex wire to use as replacement. I just did a 2046W-50 for my 681 Loco yesterday.

    Part # is SW-22  cost is 0.25 per foot

     Here is his web address: http://www.ttender.com/ 

     Tks,

     Kev.

    Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

    Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

     

  • Kev,

    You know a good guy in Jeff.

    In addition to having most of the items, Jeff is very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful.

    Ralph 

  • Another possibility: I had a tender with similar behavior. Turned out that the long rivet (for lack of a better term) on the 3rd rail roller assembly--the one that has the little coil spring wrapped around it--was shorting on the underside of the truck. When the tender is moved, the roller assembly tilts slightly, and that just brought the head of the rivet into contact with the truck. These old stamped metal trucks are often deformed: I suppose when the car is dropped, the whole truck flattens slightly and spreads.  Rather than try to reform the truck, I insulated the problem area with some electrical tape.

  • Ralph,

    You can say that again. Extremely helpful and his prices are very good compared to others. Big Smile

     I picked up all of the parts for the tender and nice new ornamental horn, bell, marker lights and a two position E-unit for a DT&I #8111 I have that I thought deserved some upgrades.

    Tks,

    Kevin

    Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

    Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

     

  • I want to thank everyone for their comments.  I will be working on the suggestions and hope that the whistles will again work as they should. Of course, since the whistles are over 60 years old (a little younger than me) for them NOT to have problems would be the miracle!

  • That sounds fantastic, Kevin,

    Jeff is a Gentleman.

    I always wanted to buy a DT&I diesel, but never had the dough, when they were new.

    Good luck and enjoy.

    Ralph

  • GeorgiaBoy,

    That baby will work like a charm, once all of the bugs are out.

    Good luck,

    Ralph

  • GeorgiaBoy,

     Yeah, let us know what you find out.

    Good Luck!!!

    Kevin

    Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

    Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

     

  • If you oil the roller on the pickup you may solve the problem.  The reduced friction will not cause the pickup to tilt so much.  My experience with these pickups is that sometimes the clearances don't seem to be enough.

  • GeorgiaBoy,

      As has been suggested, use all new wiring to start with. Press the roller up by hand and slightly wiggle it to make sure neither the roller, or the solder tab with the wire touches the frame or the axle. Having two tenders with the same problem is odd. A few questions:

    1- Do you have any other post-war tenders on your layout that work properly?

    2- When you stop moving the tenders does the short go away, or do the whistles still try to blow?

    With the shells off, wedge a thin piece of cardboard or a few folds of paper into the relay to keep the contacts from closing. Be careful not to bend the thin contacts. Try moving the tender again and see if the short still occurs. If the short is still there, either the wiring from the roller to the relay is shorting, or (I doubt this) there is a slight DC voltage on the track that is trying to pull in the relay.

      Do not oil any pickup rollers, as the oil will attract dirt an act as an electrical insulator. Get a can of tuner cleaner from your local Radio Shack (if they still have any!), or any other mild aerosol solvent (not WD-40) and spray the roller and the rivet it spins on to clean it of any dirt buildup.

      Let us know how you make out.

    Larry