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Question on Lionel 6-38300 Virginian FM Trainmaster

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Question on Lionel 6-38300 Virginian FM Trainmaster
Posted by Deputy on Friday, September 16, 2011 2:16 PM

This is one of the "Postwar Classics". Does anyone know if this loco is "TMCC ready"? I know some newer locos that Lionel produces have all the connections in place for TMCC. I wondered if this was one of them. Question

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Train-O on Friday, September 16, 2011 2:43 PM

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-38300&expandBranch=0&Keywords=virginian&CategoryID=176&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Deputy,

Scan the above link and transfer it into the your address bar for the details of the Lionel FM Virginian.

I'm not sure, but the newer units may have the space for updates, check with Lionel's technicians.

The tech's are helpful.

Sorry, I don't have their phone number.

Ralph

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Friday, September 16, 2011 3:07 PM

They don't mention it in the Features, here's the page:  http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-38300&expandBranch=0&Keywords=6-38300&CategoryID=0&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

 

If you want TMCC/Railsounds, you can use the ERR AC Commander and RailSounds package.

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Posted by Deputy on Friday, September 16, 2011 3:40 PM

It only caught my eye because it has magnetraction and the Williams version doesn't. It's slightly more expensive than the Williams, though. I was hoping that would be offest by it having the TMCC stuff already there and just needing a "plug-in" to make it work. Oh well. Thanks for the info guys Thumbs Up

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Saturday, September 17, 2011 8:47 AM

I think it's a blank slate as far as TMCC goes.  FWIW, I've had a couple of "TMCC upgradable" locomotives, and when I opened them up, I didn't see anything that suggested I didn't need the whole package!

 

I know that there were some produced that you just pop out the reverse board and stick in the R2LC and away you go, but not all of them are that simple.

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Posted by Deputy on Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:04 AM

gunrunnerjohn

I think it's a blank slate as far as TMCC goes.  FWIW, I've had a couple of "TMCC upgradable" locomotives, and when I opened them up, I didn't see anything that suggested I didn't need the whole package!

 

I know that there were some produced that you just pop out the reverse board and stick in the R2LC and away you go, but not all of them are that simple.

That's what I was looking for. And it seems Lionel has copied Williams with an electronic reverse board. So it would be identical to installing TMCC in a Williams loco. Only plus is magnetraction.

I found the list of TMCC ready locos at Digital Dynamics:

Lionel Command Ready Diesel Locomotives
6-11983 Farmrail GP-7
6-11984 Corvette GP-7
6-18157 Santa Fe FT
6-18163 NYC FT
6-18169 B & O FT
6-18233 BNSF Dash-9
6-18256 Amtrak Dash-9
6-18257 BNSF Dash-9
6-18258 Santa Fe Dash-9
6-18259 Norfolk Southern Dash-9
6-18260 Conrail SD-70 Mac
6-18261 Burlington Northern SD-60 MAC
6-18262 BNSF SD-70 M
6-18263 CSX SD-60 MAC
6-18264 Southern Pacific SD-70 M
6-18280 Maersk SD-70 M
6-18282 BNSF Dash-9
6-18284 CSX Dash-9
6-18286 UP Dash-9
6-18573 Santa Fe GP-9
6-18580 Pennsy GP-9 B Unit
6-18590 Nickle Plate C-420
6-18591 D & H C-420
6-18592 Lehigh Valley C-420
6-18864 Southern Pacific GP-9 B Unit
6-18865 NYC GP-9 B Unit
6-18897 Christmas GP-7
6-28500 Mopac GP-20
6-28501 Santa Fe GP-9
6-28504 Atlantic Coast Line GP-7
6-28506 Monon C-420
6-28508 New Haven C-420
6-28513 Ford Mustang GP-7
6-28515 Service Station C-420
6-28516 Lehigh & Hudson River C-420
6-38150 Platinum Ghost F-3
6-52259 CLRC GP-20

 

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Saturday, September 17, 2011 3:02 PM

Sounds right, I've only ever seen one that actually was "TMCC ready" and truly was just add the R2LC and connect the antenna.  Most I've gone for the ERR complete kit to upgrade.

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, September 17, 2011 6:09 PM

Deputy my question thou is Lionel dual motors or single as you know Williams has dual motors in it. And I know they can pull good.

I will also show you where I put my tmcc switch on mine now I could of done a lot neater job and I still need to fix it if it don't sell the way it is. but just an idea for a place to put yours as other wise you will need to be cutting into the metal frame.

 

just to give you an idea. Also if you see the big round are on the top that looks like a screen well thats where i glued my speaker/speakerbox to just had to cut the screw holes off the box so it would fit right.

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Posted by Deputy on Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:30 PM

RT:It's a dual Pullmor motor version. Specs:

Manufacturer Model: 6-38300


#2331 Virginian (yellow/black) FM diesel

  • Twin Pullmor motors
  • Electronic horn and bell with volume control
  • MAGNE-TRACTION
  • Equipped with die-cast trucks with operating couplers
  • Die-cast metal pilots and fuel tank
  • Electronic e-unit with Direction Lock
  • Dual headlights on both ends
  • Illuminated markers and number boards
  • Traction tires
  • Air hose connections on each side of front coupler
  • Big, six-wheel trucks with molded springs and hand brakes connections
  • Oil tank and compressed air tanks for brakes under the center of the car
  • Traditional O Gauge

 

Scale: O → three-rail O gauge
Reporting Marks: VGN
Found In Catalog: 2008 volume 2

If I do the conversion it will be permanent TMCC. It won't need a switch. The speaker will most likely occupy the same location and point in the same direction as the current one.

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:37 PM

you need that switch to program it ( engine number) and should it ever need reprograming ( yes there is times you may need to reprogram engine number)

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Posted by Deputy on Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:46 PM

BTW...I just took a closer look at this loco. Bad news. Idiots at Lionel goofed again. They put the train number ON THE BODY. Maybe they are modelling a Virginian FM AFTER Virginian was bought by N&W. But Virginian NEVER put the train number on the body. Wait...the Williams unit ALSO has a number on the body!!!!! ACK !!!! Idiots!!! Monkey see monkey do. Angry Looks like I won't be buying either one Embarrassed

 

THIS is what the FM Virginain is SUPPOSED to look like:

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by SantaFe158 on Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:34 PM

Keep in mind, the FM trainmaster made by Lionel is a postwar era toy, it wasn't supposed to be the scale MTH locomotive shown above.  Williams' FM is basically a replica of the Lionel one so yes, they probably are inaccurate.  The Conventional classics series is supposed to be replica's of the postwar locomotives too, so they're going to look like them.

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Posted by Deputy on Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:40 PM

SantaFe158

Keep in mind, the FM trainmaster made by Lionel is a postwar era toy, it wasn't supposed to be the scale MTH locomotive shown above.  Williams' FM is basically a replica of the Lionel one so yes, they probably are inaccurate.  The Conventional classics series is supposed to be replica's of the postwar locomotives too, so they're going to look like them.

That argument would hold water EXCEPT...no postwar Lionel Virginian ever had a number painted on it.  So what Lionel did was take the right color from the postwar era and screw up it's accuracy by painting a number on it. If you want to imagine it as a Virginian that is in the post-NS purchase you would have an accurate loco. NS is the one that painted numbers on the sides of Virginian locos. Unfortunately, that doesn't work either. NS numbered the FMs from 150-174. The number on this loco is 2331.  

Here is a picture of a POSTWAR Lionel Virginian. See any numbers painted on it?

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by rtraincollector on Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:20 AM

Wonder if a PWC frame would let a PW shell mount to it or did they change the mountings also cause if they will saw a post war shell for sale on ebay for $279.99 + free shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-No-2322-Virginian-FM-shell-no-cracks-NOS-BIN-/380356210180?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item588eff2e04

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Posted by SantaFe158 on Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:24 AM

Sorry, I guess I never noticed that Smile

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Posted by Train-O on Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:41 AM

Deputy,

Are you using that FM Trainmaster book for comparison?

I don't have mine handy, but are, or is there a color photo. for use?

Regardless of when and who these babies were and are made by, I thought that they were all of a 1:48 scale size, similar to Lionel's F-3/7's.

Ralph

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, September 18, 2011 10:43 AM

SantaFe158

Sorry, I guess I never noticed that Smile

No sweat. Sorry I got so adament about it. I've been studying the Virginian very closely lately. I've purchased a few detailed (and expensive) books on the railroad. I get really smoked when toy train makers make locos or rolling stock based on what they think are pretty colors or fantasy designs. I mean there ARE people at Lionel who know what the Virginian Trainmaster is supposed to look like. Check this out. Here is a Virginian with the correct colors and NO number on the shell.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-New-6-18327-Trainmaster-F-Morse-Virginian-/260684649541?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cb2041445

This is part of the Postwar Celebration Series. I am tempted to grab it. Price is pretty reasonable.  

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:13 AM

Train-O

Deputy,

Are you using that FM Trainmaster book for comparison?

I don't have mine handy, but are, or is there a color photo. for use?

Regardless of when and who these babies were and are made by, I thought that they were all of a 1:48 scale size, similar to Lionel's F-3/7's.

Ralph

Ralph: I have a few books on the Virginian RR. ALL of them show locos in black and yellow. No blue and yellow Virginian exists to my knowledge. Per the Lionel Collector's Guide and History Vol 2, the first, and color-correct version of the Virginian, came out in 1955. It was yellow and black with gold lettering. In 1956 the Virginian changed to blue and yellow. The theory, and it's just theory as there is no way to verify it, is that Lionel used the same shells as the blue and orange Jersey Central FM, which also came out in 1956 and both locos uses the same color blue shells. Even weirder is some Virginian FM locos came with a grey shell and were also painted blue and yellow. Oh well...I guess if Lionel is going to paint something the wrong color, at least they can be consistent.

As to scale and size...not sure about that. While all FM Trainmasters built by the toy train manufacturers are generally the same size, I think there are small variations in them. Maybe 1/8th inch difference in length from one to the other. You would think they would all be one size, but I suspect the toy train companies make them different to prevent swapping out shells. I know among the same run, the shells are all identical. The MTH Virginian Trainmaster I have came out in 2009 and listed with it are a green/gold Jersey Central, a grey-red Southern Pacific, and a Chessie B&O version. I would think all of those shells would be interchangeable within that release. But whether Lionel, MTH, and Williams shells interchange, or whether Railking Scale interchanges with the MTH Premiere versions...I dunno. I kinda doubt it but I never tried it Big Smile  

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Train-O on Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:18 PM

Deputy,

From what I know is the Lionel FM Trainmaster I bought with TMCC has four screw holes, one in each corner, of its body, to attach to the chassis.
The Lionel Post War middle 1950's version has one screw hole at each end, of its body, to attach to the chassis.
And I heard that all models, from the mid. '50's, to present are close to 1:48 scale size and proportions.

The one I have is a Lionel- Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 'Lackawanna' model and is very close, in all detail and color scheme, of the color and b.&w. photos. in the FM Trainmaster book, as well as, being very close to scale size and proportions.

Someone, at LIONEL actually got it, almost, right.  
Very close to museum quality in all aspects and NO 'FANTASY' BULL-----!!!!!

It. should be close to correct!
IT *** COSTS PLENTY!!!!! 

Ralph

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Posted by Train-O on Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:23 PM

Thanks censor, but you left out one asterisk and now the word can not be figured out!

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:42 PM

Ralph: I will have to drag out some boxes and check it out. I own both Lionel and MTH Trainmasters, but no Williams. I have an early Demo Trainmaster made by MTH back in the old days of Protosounds 1. I'll let you know what I find on them.

Dep

 

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, September 18, 2011 2:27 PM

Well I checked both the early MTH Proto 1 FM and the newer Virginian I just took delivery of, and BOTH had the old style screws in the front and back of the cab. My Lionel FMs are buried behind a bunch of boxes, so I couldn't get at them.

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Train-O on Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:54 PM

Deputy,

The middle 1950's-PW and the newer "Conventional Classics' have the fore and aft screws in the body.
The TMCC units have the four screws, one in each corner, on the bottom of the body.

I don't know why these units have a difference in mounting, but it would be interesting to find out.

As, I said before, I was told that they're all the same size, but it may be possible that there actually is a size difference.

Ralph

 

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Posted by Deputy on Monday, September 19, 2011 9:02 AM

Ralph: The dimensions on my RailKing Scale FM are 17" x 2 58" x 3 7/8". The dimensions on a Premier FM Trainmaster are identical.

For Williams, the dimensions of a Traditional Line FM are length 17" height 4"
For Williams Golden Line length 16 7/8" height 4"
So there is a difference.

No idea on Lionel measurements, and interchangeability because Lionel doesn't list the dimensions in the catalog.

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Train-O on Monday, September 19, 2011 9:21 AM

Deputy,

Thank you for the actual measurements.

I only have one Lionel TMCC type, so I am unable to get actual measurements and I had a felling that there would be a difference from one, to another.

Ralph

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