Round about 1992 or 3 I bought a "top of the line" Lionel 2-6-4 Santa Fe steamer with smoke, magnatraction and an air whistle tender for $300 from Warren's Trains. All of those features are considered "low-end" almost 20 years later and so my little steamer has decreased in value. Bottom line, the new hudson isn't an original 1937 700E so spending 1600 on it now may not be a good investment. Or maybe it is especially if Lionel stops production tomorrow. It's too hard to tell from that point of view.
What I see is that I don't have 1600 or even 100 dollars to spend on new locomotives. Even 50 is a stretch and 20 or less is more my realm. So I've had to learn to be content with buying the stuff that nobody seems to want. Which is fine because that way I can do whatever I want with it and nobody cares. (Not that I care what anybody thinks anyways.) But is it fair to people like me that fly way way way below the radar when it comes to companies like Lionel deciding what their price points will be? Certainly not. But I accept that I'm not running the show and I do fine fixing up junkers. BTW I don't remember the number on that Santa Fe 2-6-4 because I reworked it into a Nickel Plate 2-6-2 years ago!
However it does bother me that nobody besides me can produce what I want at a price that I can afford. Shouldn't there be a $50 hudson on the market that looks good and runs well even if it isn't a "perfect reproduction" or "loaded with all the latest features"? Isn't it time for Lionel and MTH to recognize that maybe the buyers who could afford $1600 for 1 hudson would rather buy 2 $800, 4 $400, 8 $200 or 16 $50 locomotives if they looked as good and ran as well? Wouldn't you? Maybe we should ask them to bring back the 700K? The idea of "upgrading" was brought up here recently in regards to the electronics, why not also apply the logic to separately applied details? How hard would it be to make "handrail kits" or "piping stes"? Why not have a "universal" design philosophy where piping kits would work for multiple locomotives?
Unfortunately this all seems to be nothing but a dream since there is no Marx to step up in 2011 and fill the niche. The $50 locomotives on the market today more often than not look overpriced to begin with since they're often designed by people who know little to nothing about locomotive designs.
However there is Williams. And if I ever am able to afford a brand new hudson in the near future I can tell you it will come from them! In the meantime maybe I'll just start buying hudson parts one at a time like I contemplated doing for a 392E.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Hey Rich,
And they say a dollar doesn't go as far as it use to!
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
I think it's an important point that the consumer drives what is produced by what is bought. The only issue I can see in this is a sort of economic divide that may be unique to this economy whether the funds come from cash or a credit card. One thing out of this day and age, I better understand is how Marx held their market position for so long by creating simple toys with simple engineering while being colorful, as an alternative to their comparatively "Cadillac "competitors. I think HO invaded O with an emphasis on details, and I recall sound systems in HO before they became standard features in O..whilst theirs was standardized with plug in's. It's funny sometimes I think all of this ultra realism is a reaction to playing with toys...what others may think..this is not a toy..it's a scale model ! But at $2,200.00 somehow I think the Rubicon has been crossed, it's now a collector's market for the state of the art and the affordable toy aspect that brought me into this, is rapidly evaporating. Maybe I should now collect Lego as even Marx has it's limits. LOL.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
The 773 sold for $50 in 1950. You could get it in a freight set for $79.50 or a passenger set (with three Madison cars) for $85.
Bob Nelson
$75 in 1937= $1200 bigger difference but still not unreasonable for the gadgets on it. IMHO
It gets down to how bad you need the newest & greatest Hudson and how much you are willing to pay for it. The stage was set when the Vision line started offering $800 diesels and a enough folks jumped on the bandwagon for Lionel to decide that the $1800 AT&SF steamer would be accepted and now we have the $2200 Diesel.
There are folks that will open their wallets for those guys, I use to, but I really don't need any more super big buck locomotives.
Bill T.
Jason
B&O = Best & Only
Sorry I don't know the exact years or the price of a Hudson new. I chose 1949 at $175 which came out to $1583 So in my opinion its not too far off. And dont forget it does do more than the original.
Hey guys, fear not.
You can buy an American Flyer Hudson on eBay for under $15.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-Hudson-Engine-and-Tender-shells-/160642278589?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item256706a4bd
Rich
Alton Junction
BOY! Not for nothing, but they really have come a long way from "A Toy For The Boy".
Just my !
Overpriced? yes. But I sure wish I could have bought one. I saw them both at York and it was love at first sight. But it would would have been a black one.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
... I wonder what those Y2K gold plated Hudsons are changing hands for now?
Or paper Hudsons!
Seayakbill I have read quite a few reviews of the Vision Hudson and it was a mixed bag. Some thought it was worth the money others thought it was overpriced. IMO, I would have passed at $1600, I might have spent $800 on it. It will be interesting to see the opinions of the $2200 Centepede in the latest Lionel catalog.
I have read quite a few reviews of the Vision Hudson and it was a mixed bag. Some thought it was worth the money others thought it was overpriced. IMO, I would have passed at $1600, I might have spent $800 on it.
It will be interesting to see the opinions of the $2200 Centepede in the latest Lionel catalog.
As in two thousand two hundred..!? Whoa, this is just surrealistic, unbelievable and that price for such an odd lot like the Baldwin prototype? What does it take...twelve foot radii curves? I no longer understand this hobby's trends. Growing the hobby? LOL. I am genuinely dumbfounded, or just dumb. When Marx engines reach 22000 Ill take up making paper airplanes.
I just received my October copy of CTT, which was an excellent issue just for the AF layout alone. However, I was genuinely surprised to see the aforementioned "Vision Line"Hudson was cast in an inexplicable all gray color,( and I mean completely gray) which from the photographs had the odd effect on me that made it look like a significantly lower end product. I was also surprised that the smoking whistle had issues in a review copy as well as mismatched piping, and what the reviewer said were visible mold marks, smoke unit that drips some oil. I had heard this review was forthcoming and my interest was prompted by what a $1,600.00 engine entailed. Outside of the sound gimmicks, the cost seems way inflated... I honestly think the original super detailed Hudson has this one beat hands down.This whole product seems inexplicable in some sense knowing the quality of some of their other products.. Did anyone else have this impression? Kudos to Bob Keller and CTT for a balanced, honest review, warts and all.
Heres the question: Does this high price tag create unrealistic and higher expectations and \or does the same create a higher bar for the product? If so, at first glance is this a misfired price tag or a worthy "Vision Line" product?
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