If they were mine I would first switch the wires from the transformer to the track. Make the outside wire the center wire and the center wire the outside connection. Might save you some time.
Bud
Same problem here.
I have both a set of regular O gauge and a set of fastrack. I have two modern 8632's (Penn flyer and Santa Fe engines) and an old 671rr with a 2046W-50 whistling tender. I have a Tech II transformer and a totally reconditioned ZW 275 that was made in the late 50s. Both 8632's run excellent on both tracks and both tenders. My 671rr runs the best using the ZW because the Tech II just doesn't output enough power to properly run it. And now to the same problem you have. Using either transformer, the tender will only whistle when it's the only thing sitting on either track, or if the engine is in neutral (not moving). As soon as I put the engine in forward or reverse, it just won't whistle. If it's the only thing sitting on the track, it takes just a little bit of power and it whistles loud and clear. Any thoughts? Is the wire I'm using too dinky? It's regular lionel fastrack wire. Please help I told the guy who reconditioned both the 671rr and the 2046W-50 about my problem and he had no idea and told me to research the problem myself. Go figure
GREETINGS, I REWIRED THE TRUCK WIRES. TOOK 3 M WHEEL AND TOOK ALL TAR OFF WHEELS, ROLLS. THE TENDER DOES TRY TO WHISTLE MUCH BETTER THAN IT DID. NOW THE TRANSFORMER K W 190 WATT DOES NOT TRY TO WHISTLE HARDLY WHEN HOOKED UP TO A SPEED CONTROL. IT DOES ATTEMP TO WOKK ON B CONTROL, BUT STILL NOT LIKE IT SHOULD. THE MAN I GOT THIS FROM IS SENDING ME ANOTHER RECTIFIER. EVERYTHING WORKS GREAT ON THIS FORMER BUT WHISTLE CONTROL. I HAVE THREE TENDERS AND ALL OF THEM ARE ACTING THE SAME WAY. I'M OPEN FOR ANYTHING THAT I HAVE NOT DONE TO TRY TO DO. THANKS, STEVE
I think you meant "KW", not "KD".
The 5-volt compensation winding is only an approximation to what might be needed to keep the train speed constant. Some trains will speed up a little, some will slow down. However, there are some failures that can cause an unnecessary slowdown, which you can check for.
One is the size and length of the wire between the transformer and the track. If you are using small-gauge wire for any great distance, the increased current drawn by the whistle motor might be causing a voltage drop in that wire. The KW's circuit breaker trips at about 10 amperes; so your wire should be no smaller than 16 AWG, just for safety. But you may need heavier wire if the distance is more than a few feet.
Another possibility is that the track resistance, either the rails or the joints, is too great. If the slowdown is more noticeable farther from the transformer, you may benefit from supplementary feeders to the more remote regions of your layout, no smaller than 14 AWG.
But what I would check first is whether your whistle control's second stage is working. In the first stage, the compensation winding and the rectifier are switched in series with the output. This will almost certainly slow the train down. In the second stage, an additional switch contact shunts the rectifier with a low-value resistance, which is supposed to bring the voltage back up to a normal level. If you can't observe that second step when you operate the control slowly through its full range, the switch contact or the resistor or their connections inside the transformer may have failed.
Bob Nelson
I hope this is not a hijack but more a continuation of this thread.
I'm new to Lionel and am still trying to understand servicing them.
The problem I am having with my whistle tenders is that the power drops down to the locomotive when the whistle is blowing to the point where the train slows down noticeably. I too am using a KD transformer. The whistle units are cleaned and lubed. Pickups on the tender and wheels are also clean. I'm sure it's somewhat normal for the engine to lose a little power from the AC as once the whistle is operating it's sharing AC with the engine motor. But is it normal for the speed of the loco to drop off enough to be noticeably slower? What are some of the things to look for.? Should the commutator and brushes be cleaned? Just looking for some advice too.
Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.
If the whistle starts to blow in the "pickup" position, but drops out at the "holding" position then often the problem is that the load is too light on the transformer to generate enough "holding" DC bias.
Let's go back to how you tested the whistles in the first place. Were the tenders upright when you tested them? The whistle relay depends on gravity to keep the contacts open until you try to blow the whistle. If the tender is upside down, the whistle will generally blow whenever you apply voltage to the tender, with or without the whistle control's help.
The whistle control works in two stages. When you first move it, it inserts a 5-volt winding and the copper-oxide rectifier in series with the output. The rectifier is supposed to clip off the negative half-cycles of the waveform, giving the output a strong positive DC voltage component to operate the relay, which is sensitive only to DC. When you move the control the rest of the way, it puts a resistor in parallel with the rectifier, letting most but not all of the negative half-cycles get past the rectifier. This greatly reduces the DC voltage, but to a level that should keep the relay operated. The 5-volt winding is there to partly compensate for the loss of part of the AC waveform and for any voltage drop at the locomotive when the whistle motor is running.
The fact that the locomotive speeds up shows us that the 5-volt winding is being switched in as it should be. If you move the whistle control very slowly, can you detect a slowdown at first, when the rectifier should be in the circuit, and then a speedup as the resistor shunts the rectifier?
GREETINGS BOB, THE MAN I BOUGHT K W TRANSFORMER ASSURES ME THE WHISTLE WORKS ON TRANSFORMER. NO DOUBT RELA Y IS BAD. THESE TENDERS ARE AT LEAST 50 TO 60 YEARS OLD. NOW THE NEW QUESTION IS HOW CAN I FIX THESE RELAYS. THANKS TO ALL FOR THE FEED BACK. STEVE
Modern electronic whistle controls are touchy if the train isn't supplying enough load to give a decent DC offset when the resistor is switched across the transformer rectifier.
In addition to Bob's comments: I have some Modern Era Lionel whistling tenders that will not work with postwar whistle controllers. They only work with the correct Modern Era external controllers.
I HAVE TESTED TWO TENDERS. ONE # 243, AND THE OTHER #6466. I BELIEVE THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED RELAY TENDERS. THERE IS A MAGNET WHICH PULLS A PLATE UP THAT HAS A CONTACT ON IT THAT WOULD MAKE WHISTLE WORK WHEN WHISTLE KNOB IS TURNED ON. THANKS FOR RESPONDING, STEVE
GREETINGS BOB, MY TWO TENDERS I HAVE TESTED ARE # 243, AND 6466. I DO BELIEVE THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERD RELAY. THERE IS A PLATE WITH A CONTACT ON IT THAT WHEN THE WHISTLE SWITCH IS ACTIVATED TO CAUSE THE MAGNET TO PULL THE PLATE UP AND TOUCH THE RELAY CONTACT ON WHISTLE. WAITING ON YOUR RESPONSE. THANKS, STEVE
Do the tenders have whistle relays or electronic whistles? Modern whistles and horns are sensitive to the polarity of the DC voltage component that the transformer puts onto the track. Whistle relays don't care about polarity.
My bet would be that you need to replace the whistle rectifier in that KW. A modern diode will do nicely.
Roger
Well, it's either the whistle relay in the tenders or the whistle rectifier disks in the KW transformer. Have you tested them in another location or tested other whistling tenders with that KW?
GREETINGS, THIS IS MY PROBLEM. I HAVE A K W 190 WATT TRANSFORMER. I HAVE JUST BOUGHT TWO WHISTLE TENDERS THAT I HAVE TESTED ON" A" SPEED CONTROL BY TOUCHING WIRES TO CONTACT POINTS. BOTH WHISTLE GREAT. NOW IT PUT LOCO/ TENDER ON TRACK ACTIVATE SPEED KNOB IT GOES AROUND THE TRACK SMOOTH. WHEN I GO TO BLOW WHISTLE KNOB THE TRAIN JUST GOES FASTER, NO WHISTLE. A / B AND ACCESSORY POWER SOURCES WORK FINE ON TRANSFORMER. I AM NEW AT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHISTLE TENDERS. NEVER HAD ONE. I WOULD APPRECIATE HELP IN FIGURING THIS PROBLEM OUT. THANKS, STEVE
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