I've been thinking of getting an original Lionel 2343 Super Chief AA (power and dummy) set when I eventually have the money, and I was wondering what kind of power would be needed to run them? The best I've got now is a 50 watt 13 volt Marx transformer, and I've also got a 25W 15V American Flyer transformer (which I suspect is more powerful than the 25W label, since it runs my Lionel 254 without a problem). Are these strong enough, or will I need something a little bigger?
My grandpa used to have a 2343 set along with a KW transformer back in the 50s, but he sold it to a hobby store in exchange for whatever HO scale engine my dad wanted for his 10th birthday. Now that I've been getting some old O gauge stuff up and running, I'd like to eventually have another one of those Super Chief sets to run and display.
_________________________________________________________________
You might consider getting a 2243 set instead. That's a single-vertical-motor A unit and a dummy B unit. They are the first of Lionel's definitive vertical-motor design and are quieter and smoother than the horizontal motors and even other later vertical motors. I have several, including my first Lionel locomotive, which I ran with a small Marx transformer back in 1955, pulling four 2400-series lighted cars, with no problems.
Bob Nelson
I've looked at the 2243, but the one I really want is the 2343. I like the detail of the body and the silver trucks better, as well as the dual motors. It's also the set my grandpa had, and I've been trying to rebuild most of his old collection the way it was. I know from a lot of my HO stuff that the motor spur gear transfer design is noisier, but I don't really mind the noise.
My Marx 999 and American Flyer Royal Blue both draw 3 to 4 amps under load, and the Marx transformer handles them well, so I'm guessing it might be powerful enough. But I want to make sure anyway so that if I'm wrong, I won't accidentally blow up my transformer.
If you're planning on spending that kind of money on the locomotive, I can't see why you won't spend $50-60 for a nice used Lionel KW, you'll have plenty of power with one of those.
A kw or at least a 1033. I don't think those little transformers are going to like that 2 motor engine. Lionel also made a couple of nice transformers larger than the 1033 that are not very expensive.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Dennis, if you should ever sell it, it might help to know that, all else being equal, the dummy B unit (2243C) is worth as much as or more than the A unit. They are the only B units that match the much later 2383 A-A set and are in demand for stretching those to A-B-B-A.
sir james I, I just looked at used 1033 transformers, and it looks like I can get one for a good price (about 1/4 as much as a KW). My Lionel 254 and passenger cars should like the 90W better too, and that much power should be more than enough for my needs. Thanks for the suggestion!
Darth,
Although the 1033 is a very nice transformer, consider the RW. They are 110W, and they are easier to work on than the 1033 IMHO. I restored two of them, and replacing parts such as the cord, breaker, and rectifier were much easier than on 1033s. RWs go for about the same price as the 1033s.
I have four 1033's, and I've done a lot of work on them. I'm not sure what you found "hard to work on", but they're pretty simple.
gunrunnerjohn I have four 1033's, and I've done a lot of work on them. I'm not sure what you found "hard to work on", but they're pretty simple.
Ever try changing a breaker in a 1033? The rectifier was difficult enough to change, but was easier than attempting the riveted breaker. I scrapped the one with the bad breaker since they aren't worth much anyway. Wasn't worth my time either.
Changing the breaker in RWs is easy since it is screwed to the base and easy to get at for replacement. The rectifier is easier to replace as well since there is room to get at the back to deal with the pin and spacers.
I simply ripped the rectifier out and replaced it with a 6A diode, much more reliable. The breaker in the one that needed it was simply retrofitted with a 6A mini breaker intended for automotive use.
Both were very easy fixes.
John,
I thought about an automotive breaker, but I didn't think there was enough room inside the case. Where did you put it?
As far as power draw for 2343s, that number can vary based on several factors. For 2343s that have been cleaned and lubed, I'd guess 4-5 amps. Be sure you go through both motors and trucks. Servicing these F3s isn't that much different from any other locomotive, but it can be tedious. The main thing to remember is to mark the driveshaft bearings before they are removed so that they go back in correctly.
The breaker I used for the one that needed it was one of the small ones that plug in with the blades like modern automotive fuses. I just stuck it down near where the old breaker was, fits fine. There's lots of room in the case, a bigger one would fit near the rectifier area.
Thanks for the additional responses. I'll also look at the RW when the time comes. I'll more than likely find one in full working condition so I don't have to repair it, and which type I get will depend on what price I can get them for.
green97probe, I think I'll be able to handle the servicing pretty well. I've gotten to be pretty good at making things work like new, or sometimes even better than new.
heres another option for you its a lionel lw it has 125w of power and train city has 2 of them for $69 each http://www.traincity.com/
just a thought for you.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
$69 is OUTRAGEOUS! You can get a decent transformer for far less. I just picked up a Lionel type V 150W transformer on eBay for $12.50 + shipping.
Yeah but: a type V has no whistle, direction or fixed voltage post. Plus the last year it was made is 1947.
I don't plan to spend much more than $25 for a good transformer. My Marx 50W (which is in great condition) only cost me $12, and I don't want to spend $50 or $100 on something just to make one train work. I'm not in need of multiple train control either. All I need is something to give everything on one track enough power to move.
Hmm you want a nice set of F3s but you don't want to spend $50. for a transformer to run them with. I guess there's nothing else we can do for you then.
Correction, there's nothing you can do for him.
You can roll your own horn/bell box that will work for any transformer quite inexpensively. As far as the age of the transformer, I'd personally pick the old PW transformers over the modern electronically controlled ones any day, they're virtually bulletproof! There's no reason to blow that kind of money on that capacity transformer.
If you want to spend $50-60 on a transformer, you can buy a nice KW at 190 watts any day of the week on eBay.
Thats basicly what SJ was saying as he wants to just spend $25 which is fine but don't expect to get the power you need out of a $25 transformer and in good to or better condition is all
The one I shown was a little expensive but then all of us aren't that electric knowledge as others so what you consider easy may not be to others so when I make a suggestion I look at (unless I know the person) they may not want to or have the knowledge to do what you say is easy to make and inexpensive to do. But do agree you can get a good transformer on ebay for 50 - 60 very easy but the shipping on ebay a lot of times eats you up I always look at that first as with choochoo he usually is $9.50 min. or 7.5% and think he maxes out at like $25 so you have to have won a high value of items to get there.
The one I shown was a little expensive but then all of us aren't that electric knowledge as others so what you consider easy may not be to others so when I make a suggestion I look at (unless I know the person) they may not want to or have the knowledge to do what you say is easy to make and inexpensive to do.
But do agree you can get a good transformer on ebay for 50 - 60 very easy but the shipping on ebay a lot of times eats you up I always look at that first as with choochoo he usually is $9.50 min. or 7.5% and think he maxes out at like $25 so you have to have won a high value of items to get there.
My American Flyer Royal Blue with its cars and illuminated caboose draws 4 to 5 amps, and the 50W more than handles it. If the Lionel F3 set draws 5 amps or so on its own, the 1033 or RW should give more than enough power, and it looks like both of them have a horn/whistle button or lever. My O setup is never much larger than a 42" by 82" oval, so there's negligible power loss at even the farthest point.
I've done some quick eBay searching, and both transformers go from $20 to $40 in good condition. Why pay more?
The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :)
gunrunnerjohn The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :)
That would be true if you were just using one output. That 190W will diminish the second you use the second throttle or fixed voltage posts.
As for the price of 2343s, you'd realistically be looking at spending at least $275 for operator grade. For 2343s without battery damage and decent red and silver, $350+ isn't unreasonable.
green97probeAs for the price of 2343s, you'd realistically be looking at spending at least $275 for operator grade. For 2343s without battery damage and decent red and silver, $350+ isn't unreasonable.
That's about what I figure I'll be spending on the engines. I don't have a large income (none at the moment!!), so I always try to cut costs wherever possible. It'll be months before I actually feel comfortable buying this stuff, but it never hurts to know what I need to know in advance!
green97probe gunrunnerjohn: The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :) That would be true if you were just using one output. That 190W will diminish the second you use the second throttle or fixed voltage posts.
gunrunnerjohn: The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :)
Just for your reference, since you seem not to know this, the LW has fixed voltage outputs as well, and they're subject to the same power limitation. Also, if you're so inclined, you can draw all the KW can deliver through one output if that's your desire.
You might want to proofread your replies, that one didn't make any sense.
gunrunnerjohn green97probe: gunrunnerjohn: The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :) That would be true if you were just using one output. That 190W will diminish the second you use the second throttle or fixed voltage posts. Not sure what point you're trying to make here. The LW is a 125W transformer and the KW is a 190W transformer. Either can obviously only supply it's rated power (actually usually less, but that's another topic), so your "fact" makes no sense, it applies universally. Yes, if you use more outputs, the total power available is split between the outputs, that shouldn't come as a shock. Just for your reference, since you seem not to know this, the LW has fixed voltage outputs as well, and they're subject to the same power limitation. Also, if you're so inclined, you can draw all the KW can deliver through one output if that's your desire. You might want to proofread your replies, that one didn't make any sense.
green97probe: gunrunnerjohn: The KW has a whistle switch, FWIW, so it's as capable as the LW in that regard, you just get a lot more available power for the less money. :) That would be true if you were just using one output. That 190W will diminish the second you use the second throttle or fixed voltage posts.
Just so you know, I have a Bachelor in Electrical Engineering, so I am experienced with AC theory among many other things. Call me out if you want. I don't have to prove myself to anyone.
I would take the plunge.
Lionel ZW 275 transformers are all over ebay and one that's not super clean but functional can cost maybe $150 - $200 and are capable of running up to 4 trains. I have one myself but have never run more than 2 trains at a time.........my one 2344 NYC f3 and a 1970's GP9.
Yes! the 2343 requires more power than a single motor unit but how much more I don't know. But buy try out what ya got and if it's not sufficient then like I said......use it as an excuse and take the plunge for a classic monster ZW. :) I know I would
I'm not questioning your education, just your "facts" in this topic. If you want to start an education contest, I also have an EE degree and a Masters in Computer Science.
If you want to stick to the topic at hand, just point out where I'm wrong.
I have a couple of ZW's, one of the new ones with 4 180 watt bricks, and one of the originals. The reason I recommend the KW is it's currently the bargain per watt of PW transformers. If you are patient, you can score one for $50-60 on eBay, I've bought a couple of them there. I still have one of them, but I sold the others. The ZW rarely goes for less than $120-130. I use the ones like the Type V I just got for accessories.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month