Wire capacity is ALL about amperage, voltage considerations are the insulation on the wire. Obviously, 15 amps at 120 volts is a lot more energy than 15 amps at 18 volts. However, the voltage drop per foot of wire is the same no matter what the voltage is.
Respectfully ...this sounds like much ado about nothing specific as far as loads.. LOl..What are you guys running, industrial vacuum cleaners? I have had my share of short circuits, but I never had the insulation melt off a wire, or a crossing gate burst into flames at 3 amps.I have sent engines into ballistic trajectories At 15 amps you are going to have the whistle controller chasing cats in Siberia jumping up trees. I have used 18 gauge since the 1960's..still do albeit I dont have a mega layout.Suggestion: Add the draws first.if you must parse.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
"Right, but the circuit breaker in this case is rated at 15A, so #14 is appropriate. I'm surprised that point escapes you."
See my first post in this thread.
"So - what is the amperage that a standard post war locomotive will draw, say pulling a 6-8 car train at a modest rate of speed ? - does it ever approach the level of 10 - 15 amps ? I have a simple multimeter that has the basic settings for measuring AC and DC voltage, and also ohms. But does not measure amps. How many amps does, say a 97 Coal elevator draw ?"
A postwar Lionel locomotive with a 6-8 car train shouldl not draw 10-15 amps. I'd be concerned if one drew 3.5 amps.
OK - So the question is all about amperage. The Lionel books that I have talk about voltage and wattage but never mention amps. There are charts and tables that show the voltage that is provided by the posts on different Lionel transformers or charts that show the required voltage for a given accessory. But I have yet to see information on the amps that a given locomotive or accessory will draw.
So - what is the amperage that a standard post war locomotive will draw, say pulling a 6-8 car train at a modest rate of speed ? - does it ever approach the level of 10 - 15 amps ? I have a simple multimeter that has the basic settings for measuring AC and DC voltage, and also ohms. But does not measure amps. How many amps does, say a 97 Coal elevator draw ?
And did Lionel, or any other Electric train maker ever provide 14 gauge wire with the purchase of a train set or a transformer ?
Steve
cwburfle "Even though we are not talking about household wiring here, if the transformer is 15 amps and the suggested wiring is 14 gauge, why would you want to use a smaller gauge wire?" Because it is easlier to work and less expensive. The master breaker on most homes is between 60 and 200 amps in my area. So why isn't all the branch wiring done with wire rated at 200 amps?...... Because the branch circuits are protected by their own circuit breakers.
"Even though we are not talking about household wiring here, if the transformer is 15 amps and the suggested wiring is 14 gauge, why would you want to use a smaller gauge wire?"
Because it is easlier to work and less expensive. The master breaker on most homes is between 60 and 200 amps in my area. So why isn't all the branch wiring done with wire rated at 200 amps?...... Because the branch circuits are protected by their own circuit breakers.
Sure, but you can carry that argument to extreme. Why not use 30 gauge wire?
30 gauge is not rated to carry enough current for prewar, postwar, or the modern era trains with which I am familar. 18 gauge is about as large as one can go, and still comfortably use the terminals and clips Lionel provided. (To get around this, some folks use heavier wire for most of the run, and splice lighter wire onto the end for the final connection to the Lionel terminal).
30 gauge wire is rated at less than 1/2 amp (.477)18 gauge wire is rated at 7.75 amps16 gauge wire is rated at 12.4 amps.
The source for above is WireTronic, an outfit that sells wire. I guess if one was planning on running more than one dual motored locomotive on the same tracks, using only a single set of feeders, then 18 or 16 gauge may not be enough. (Multiple feeders are commonly recommended to avoid the voltage drop that is often introduced by less than perfect connections at rail joints).
Another consideration for long wire runs is voltage drop. Here is the resistance (ohms/foot) for some of the wire in question (pure copper):
30 gauge: .1037118 gauge: .00638616 gauge: .00401914 gauge: .00252412 gauge: .001589
Well, looks like 14. Thanks to all. HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!
cwburfle "Even though we are not talking about household wiring here, if the transformer is 15 amps and the suggested wiring is 14 gauge, why would you want to use a smaller gauge wire?" Because it is easlier to work and less expensive.
Because it is easlier to work and less expensive.
Rich
Alton Junction
You say you just want a Yes or No answer, so the answer is No. You should not use 18 gauge wire or any other size wire for that matter other than 14 gauge.
When you consider household wiring, licensed electricians only use 14 gauge wire for 15 amp circuits, 12 gauge wire for 20 amp circuits, etc. There are strict standards for wire gauge to avoid overheating, short circuits, fires, etc.
Even though we are not talking about household wiring here, if the transformer is 15 amps and the suggested wiring is 14 gauge, why would you want to use a smaller gauge wire?
lionelsoni Eighteen AWG is safe for no more than half that and will definitely not work as well if your load current gets above 7.5 amperes...
Eighteen AWG is safe for no more than half that and will definitely not work as well if your load current gets above 7.5 amperes...
I am new to this electrical stuff, but isn't the specs you are using based on 120 volts AC? At, say 24 volts AC, shouldn't 18 gauge be able to handle higher current?
Or is voltage inconsequential in this case?
Regards,
Jonathan
"The ZW's circuit breaker trips at 15 amperes. That means that your ZW can put out a current of up to 15 amperes. The smallest wire that can safely carry a 15-ampere current is 14 AWG. Therefore you should use wire no smaller than 14 AWG."
Or you could use smaller wire, and put external circuit breakers in each feed. You don't want 15 amps pumping through a short. Things melt and/or burn up. Years ago I received a rather unpleasant burn when I picked up a steam engine that had fallen over, and whose handrail was shorting the track.I like to use postwar Lionel #91 electromagnetic circuit breakers. They are adjustable, and can be matched to your load. They trip instantly.
The ZW's circuit breaker trips at 15 amperes. That means that your ZW can put out a current of up to 15 amperes. The smallest wire that can safely carry a 15-ampere current is 14 AWG. Therefore you should use wire no smaller than 14 AWG.
Eighteen AWG is safe for no more than half that and will definitely not work as well if your load current gets above 7.5 amperes, either deliberately or accidentally. The temperature rise in the wire goes as the square of the current; so, at 15 amperes, the temperature rise in 18 AWG will be 4 times what the wire is designed for, which is 4 times too much.
Bob Nelson
Who said recycling is a new idea? The Marxists invented it.
watch?v=BRUrWTP82PY
Steve: Thanks..................... Wallyworld:
!. Yes.. you need wire..2. Either will do. The title reminded me of the post entitled "My Telephone is Broken" No offense intended. I graduated from to Whatsamatter U
Yes - there has been discussions about wire size here before. Some use the larger 14 gauge wire. I also have a 275 Watt ZW with tubular track. I have been using 18 gauge wire for my track power and have not had any problems. I have bought 100 foot rolls of solid 18 gauge wire, the spool is labeled as Thermostat Wire. There is a red wire and a white wire. I use the Red for the center rail and the White for the outside rails. I generally only run one post war locomotive at a time.
Old Subject: Just need a YES or NO answer (unless you want to offer some advice)
ZW 275 Transformer - Tubular Track I know from reading that 14 gauge wire is suggested. Will 18 gauge wire work as well? As always, many thanks.
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