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Layout update with questions

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KRM
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Layout update with questions
Posted by KRM on Sunday, June 5, 2011 1:05 PM

Well I am starting to mock up the train layout and am shooting from the hip. This way I will know what I have before, I do any ground cover. Looks like I will only need to make one special length section of track. I am using a mix of Lionel 027 straight but no 027 curves except in switches. I am also using some wide 34"R Marx curves and long straights. Lionel 027 42" and 54" curves.

I do have some questions to ask first.

Have any of you tried some of these things that I am planning to do.

On the outer main loop I will be using 42" R 027 track on the north end of the 4’x16’ section. 54" R curves on the south sections and the west 12’x8’ section with Marx 34"R connecting the east and west sides.

I have two 42"R switches for a turnout on the east side which I know will work fine with the larger trains I have that need O gauge track.

But here is my question on the rest of the switches.

I am using 027 switches in the switchyard but I am connecting Marx R 34" curves to them and in the turnout on the West End I will be using 027 switches with R42" track connected to them.

That done there will be no place on the layout where an engine or car will go over more than ¼ section of 27"R curve track.Has any of you done this and how does it work?

 

I am thinking it may work fine because I am not forcing anything to pull into a full 27" half circle.

Will attach some pictures to help you see what I am doing.

Before I do the ground cover and attached the track I am doing a drop ceiling.

Thanks,

Kevin

Layout is covering 12'x16' the 4'x16' section is the east wall

West side
 
East side
027 switch connected to R42" curve
027 switches connected to R34" Marx curve track.
East side
South end of switchyard and Marx 34" curve connecting east to west.
thanks
KRM

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by balidas on Sunday, June 5, 2011 1:23 PM

Looks great to me! I've mixed loops of different sized curves, At times, seeing how it worked, I've mixed different radius curves in the same loop.

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Posted by f147pu on Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:32 PM

I think you are asking for trouble by using the 027 switches especially with all the space you have.  Steam engines, even the smaller Lionel ones such as the 2-8-2 will not like them.  In the fifth photo notice how the near switch makes a much less smooth curve into the siding than does the rear switch.

I am planning something similar in that I will use 027 size track but the tightest curves and switches will be Marx 034, plus 042 and 054 curves, 042 yard switches and Gargraves 11 degree switches on the mainlines crossovers.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Monday, June 6, 2011 2:15 PM

Got the layour powered up today and tried to run my NORFOLK SOUTHERN DASH 8-40C  DIESEL # 8689  across the 027 switch.

Well to answer my own question about O gauge engines crossing 027 switches the answer is NO!!!

The engine is soo long it hits the switch controler section and that is not going to work. Glad I only have 3 O gauge engines. I am going to try my General Models Corporation  1000 HP E.M.C. Diesel Switcher next. It is much shorter.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, June 6, 2011 6:29 PM

Your engines and rolling stock are not going to like any of the numerous "S" curves in your trackwork.

Rob

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Monday, June 6, 2011 8:12 PM

Always seems to be problems with trains with more that 10 to 15 cars. First you have to find something with power to pull all of it. It is my experience that if you build your train correctly you will have few problems. E.G. Heaviest car on the front of the train and work your way back to the lightest. Kind of a no brainier. So far the testing I am doing is showing that this will be fine. I will add more R42" switches into the switchyard for my bigger engines. Otherwise it is working fine. Now planning the elevated 027 second loop and the lumber yard site spur.

 The short GMC EMD switcher worked fine with the 027 switch with connecting R34" Marx curves.

Tks,

 Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by phillyreading on Friday, June 10, 2011 4:46 PM

You won't like this, but using anything less than a Gargraves switch in place of the 027 switches is asking for trouble. One of your deisel engines is already getting stuck at the 027 switch, using a totally differant style of switch is one cure for your problem!

However if you know what you are doing, a DZ-1000 switch machine can be mounted to an 027 switch base. I did that with an old 027 switch that was going to be thrown away, but got a wild idea about converting it to a DZ-1000 switch machine just to see if I could use it. To use a Lionel 027 switch like I did; it must be stripped down to the base, just the center throw piece(brown plastic) left intact as this will connect to the DZ-1000 switch machine and now can be controlled by it and have a great clearance to run almost anything that will make it through a regular 027 curve.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by balidas on Friday, June 10, 2011 5:43 PM

The suggestion above is an interesting idea. I've never cared for those brown switches. In the meantime I was wondering if it would help if you took the covers off the switch motors. At least temporarily.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:29 AM

At the moment I only have the one engine that interferes with the 027 switches. So I think I will just replace a few of the 027 switches with 042s on the main loop and switchyard to accommodate the Dash 8 40C. I can use the 027 switches in my smaller lumberyard site spur where I will not be using any large engines. I plan on only using a #41 and maybe a 202 ALCO on that loop. I have been running it the way it is and it seems pretty good so far. Right now I need to get some funds for more 042 switches. I have found them online for $45.00 and it seems like that is a good price. I know they are brown but they are cost effective at that price.

 TKS,

Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:40 AM

Lee,

I have never seen Gargraves switches do they hook right up to Lionel 027 tubular track? I have just looked at some on line and they are not priced too bad.

Tks,

 Kevin

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:21 AM

There are Gargraves to Lionel adapter pins, so one would presume they would work with the switches as well.  I haven't actually tested this, but I have a pack of the adapter pins.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:58 AM

Okay so they have an adapter pin to use with the 027 track. That brings more questions.

I know there is a difference between 027 and 0 gauge Lionel track pins and height. At least on the postwar stuff I have. 

So my other questions would be are the switches at the same elevation as 027 track or are they higher like 0-gauge track? Are the adapter pins 027 size or 0-gauge size?

Thanks again,

Kevin

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:56 AM

GarGraves trackage matches the height of O-27.  I have it intermixed with no shimming whatsoever on my layout.

The problem is, once you start with GarGraves, you will want to go all the way with it, including those products that are compatible(Curtis, Ross, Right-Of-Way, eg.).

Rob

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Posted by nickaix on Sunday, June 12, 2011 12:21 PM

Gargraves O42 turnouts work well. You will like them. Bob.M is the only person I know of who has had trouble with them. His problem and the solution are posted here.

I can see one spot where you are still going to have trouble for sure--that is the S-curve in picture no. 5, where you have an O27 curve back-to-back with an O27 turnout. This will not work reliably, even with smaller-sized equipment. Oh, it will work--just often enough that you do not tear it out, and therefore it will ruin your switching fun when you have derailments there, over and over again.  This is the voice of experience speaking!

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:09 PM

Thanks for the answer Rob I think I will try some.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:15 PM

nickaix,

 The S-curve in picture no. 5, I have an O34 Marx curve back-to-back with the O27 turnouts. There are no 027 curves hooked to the 027 switches. This seems to work fair with the smaller engines so far and may need to be replaced but. this is only going into the swtch yard and will have limited use.

Thanks,

 Kevin

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by GPJ68 on Monday, July 11, 2011 8:40 PM

Just throwing out a few other suggestions I haven't seen yet:

- Replace your big honkin' switch cover 27" switches with K-Line low profile 27" switches - they show up pretty regularly floating around ebay.  You may even be able to find a dealer or few that still have old stock sitting around.  They're drop-in footprint-wise, and have the added benefits of a) not risking a switch motor burnout by inadvertently parking a train on top of the non-derail control rail - they disconnect the flow from the associated control rail once the switch is thrown - and b) can be run either directly off the transformer or via track power.

- Since you're using 034 Marx curves, I assume you know Marx made 034 switches as well (and that they have a low profile).  Marx also made similar switches in 27" radius that will clear rolling stock that don't have a snowball's chance with the big honkin' cover ones. I've got a Williams SD-whatever that would clear the 27" Marx on my old layout just fine.  Both 34" and 27" can be found floating in the 'bay as well (the 27" are more common than the 34") The only real drawback to the Marx is that they're not auto non-derailing like the Lionel and K-Line models.  You would also want to add a guide rail to the turnout side of Marx switches (very simple project) - they were made to handle the infamous "fat wheel" Marx engines and so don't have guide rails, which can cause problems for light pilots or rolling stock.  I also prefer to use Atlas #56 switch controllers over the original Marx control pads.  Marx are powered separately from the track.

Just a few other thoughts to ponder.  The Ross/Gargraves/et/al. options are very nice but can get pretty pricey.  The 27" K-Line and Marx can be found fairly cheap and will drop right in place of your current Lionel 27".

 

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