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Lionel Lighted Passenger Car shorting out

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Posted by servoguy on Saturday, June 4, 2011 8:40 PM

If you want a sad story about insulation, during the late '90s, Mercedes used "green" insulation on the wire for their cars.  It was supposed to recycle easily.  Problem was, it recycled in about 5 years while it was in the car, shorting out all the engine electronics.  Many $$$$$$$$$$$ to fix.

Bruce Baker

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Saturday, June 4, 2011 8:07 PM

I'm frequently appalled at what I find inside Lionel products, so that's not much of a surprise.  Their insistence on using wire nuts, and then not using them correctly mystifies me.  Huh?

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Posted by LittleTommy on Saturday, June 4, 2011 4:49 PM

Getting back to the original tenor of this post, I had something similar happen to me with one of my 6-48991 "American Flyer" NYC  Heavyweight Passenger Cars from 2007, which began to short out for no apparent reason. . 

After much searching, I  found that  Lionel had used "salvaged" or exceedingly poor quality wire in wiring the lights.

The insulation was in sad shape with much bare wire showing through the "insulation" and coming into contact with the metal frame of the car.  After replacing the wires with 22 ga wire with robust insulation, I have had no further trouble.  For a car that retailed for $70.00, it is sad that they did not use reasonable quality wire.

I suppose I could have made a stink about this, but what's the use.Bang Head

Little Tommy 

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Tuesday, May 31, 2011 6:28 PM

phillyreading

 

 lionelsoni:

 

I doubt that the lighted car would have fared any better had you not been using TMCC.

 

 

Gunrunnerjohn,

Changing light bulbs would not have helped when the truck assembly cooked itself due to poor workmanship or cheep plastic being used in the frame assembly. I think the caboose was made in China by Lionel. 

PS,  You need to read carefully about the subject!!

Perhaps you should just read what you wrote.  I was responding to your assertion that lighted cars were not suitable for TMCC.

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Posted by phillyreading on Friday, May 27, 2011 2:06 PM

lionelsoni

I doubt that the lighted car would have fared any better had you not been using TMCC.

Bob,

You are probally correct, the lighted caboose would not have done much better in a regular envirement verses command control envirement. It was Lionel's # 17605, Reading Lines caboose, made in 1989.

Gunrunnerjohn,

Changing light bulbs would not have helped when the truck assembly cooked itself due to poor workmanship or cheep plastic being used in the frame assembly. I think the caboose was made in China by Lionel. 

PS,  You need to read carefully about the subject!!

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:32 PM

phillyreading

 

 gunrunnerjohn:

 

 

 phillyreading:

Also I don't recommend using a lighted car with command control; TMCC, DCS or Legacy, that is how I fried my lighted caboose.

 

Well, that's a bit extreme.  All you have to do is either swap the bulbs for 18V bulbs, or do what I did with my Amtrak cars, wire the two bulbs in series.  Obviously, you have to be aware of the differences in operating in a command environment, but that doesn't mean you can have lighted cars.

 

 

You may think that's a bit extreme, however did you have to scrape the melted plastic off of your track? Also when I found the lighted car was the problem, you could light a cigar from the melting truck assembly as it was that hot!

Hey John, my problem was with the truck assembly burning up and not the light bulb!!

Lee F.

I'm not sure you bothered to read my post.  If you're running lighted cars that were designed without command control in mind, you do have to make some changes, but they are simple.  Not having lighted cars if you run command mode is not the answer.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:24 PM

I doubt that the lighted car would have fared any better had you not been using TMCC.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, May 26, 2011 2:49 PM

gunrunnerjohn

 phillyreading:

Also I don't recommend using a lighted car with command control; TMCC, DCS or Legacy, that is how I fried my lighted caboose.

Well, that's a bit extreme.  All you have to do is either swap the bulbs for 18V bulbs, or do what I did with my Amtrak cars, wire the two bulbs in series.  Obviously, you have to be aware of the differences in operating in a command environment, but that doesn't mean you can have lighted cars.

You may think that's a bit extreme, however did you have to scrape the melted plastic off of your track? Also when I found the lighted car was the problem, you could light a cigar from the melting truck assembly as it was that hot!

Hey John, my problem was with the truck assembly burning up and not the light bulb!!

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:47 PM

I found that the two 12-14V bulbs in series with 18V gave a nice glow to the passenger cars, and they're plenty bright.  If you want daylight, that's probably not the solution. :)

 

There are folks selling LED light bars to mount in your passenger cars, and you can roll your own as well.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:58 PM

Beware of the 1445 and 1447 lamps, which have a dual rating at 14.4 and 18 volts.  They run quite hot at 18 volts and have an average lifetime of only 250 hours.  Putting lamps in series will reduce 18 volts to 9 volts per lamp, which may be a little dimmer than you want.  You can put a diode (1N4001, for example) in series with a lamp to drop 18 volts to about 12 volts.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:17 PM

phillyreading

Also I don't recommend using a lighted car with command control; TMCC, DCS or Legacy, that is how I fried my lighted caboose.

Well, that's a bit extreme.  All you have to do is either swap the bulbs for 18V bulbs, or do what I did with my Amtrak cars, wire the two bulbs in series.  Obviously, you have to be aware of the differences in operating in a command environment, but that doesn't mean you can have lighted cars.

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Posted by phillyreading on Monday, May 23, 2011 2:16 PM

Welcome John,

I would check the center rail roller for shorting out to the frame of the truck assembly, this happened to me with a lighted caboose from Lionel. Also I don't recommend using a lighted car with command control; TMCC, DCS or Legacy, that is how I fried my lighted caboose. Command control puts out close to full voltage to the track and sends signals to the engine to tell it what to do or how fast to run.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by Captaincog on Friday, May 20, 2011 10:12 PM

Check the springs and pickup assembly to make sure it is not shorting out against the outer frame. I had something similiar happen on a different car and a little coat of either paint or brush on liquid insulator should do the trick.

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Lionel Lighted Passenger Car shorting out
Posted by John_4-8-8-4 on Friday, May 20, 2011 9:47 PM

Hello. 

I have a Lionel lighted (two lights) Pennsylvania passenger car that is shorting out.  When the car is on the track the transformer's green light blinks (CW-80).  If I roll the car with power to the track the wheels spark.  This happens to the wheels on both ends of the car.  The wires running to the wheels are connected and I can see no damage to them.  The car came with a Pennsylvania RTR set purchased about two years ago.  Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be the problem?  Thanks for your help!

John

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