In Lionel's 2011 Signature Catalog is the latest rendering of the famous GG-1. One of the variations is the Amtrak version which I have always had an interest in . The listed price at $270 is very competitive to Williams listed price of $310, Williams large dealer discounts brings the actual selling price very close to Lionels.
Both companies GG-1's have diecast shells which results in a very heavy loco but Williams is powered by dual motors whereas Lionel's only has one motor.
Can a single motor provide enough power for a very heavy locomotive that will be pulling 6 to 8 heavy aluminum passenger cars ?
Bill T.
The first Williams GG-1 was the single motored Silver TCA anniversary GG-1. From what I have read, it had trouble pulling the five heavyweight cars that were available for it. According to John Bradshaw (The Story of Williams Electric Trains), the problem was due to their use of a half-wave rectifier. But then the story goes on to explain that even with the rectifier replaced with a bridge, the loco's ability to pull five cars was questionable. Williams made an upgrade available to add a second motor.
Three hundred upgrades were sold. Apparently there were a total of 6,000 cabs made, with 1,500 leftovers. So they must have sold 4,500 hundred sets.
How does this relate to the current Lionel offering?Who knows?
IMO, other than the collector value somewhere down the road, I'd go with the Williams. I have an ancient Williams GG-1, and it will pull the chrome off a bumper! I've never been impressed with the single motor versions. It's not so much motor power as the number of driving wheels, the Williams has all 12 wheels driving, much better traction.
The single motor is not the issue... how many drive wheels is. If the motor powers all 12 drivers, it should be fine.
Even with one motor, it has MagneTraction and tires. Much better than the Williams 1 motor version with just a weak version of MagneTraction.
Rob
Much better than the Williams 1 motor version with just a weak version of MagneTraction.
The Williams GG-1 has two motors and rubber tires. I have about a half dozen Williams locos and they all have dual motors.
I didn't think Williams locos had Magna-traction, thought that was a Lionel only deal. I will check to see which Williams locos are equiped with M-T.
The Silver TCA GG1 is the Williams 1 motor version with MagneTraction. They didn't market it with that name(or at all for that matter).
The 2 motor versions had neither magnets nor tires originally. They now have tires.
ADCX Rob The single motor is not the issue... how many drive wheels is. If the motor powers all 12 drivers, it should be fine. Even with one motor, it has MagneTraction and tires. Much better than the Williams 1 motor version with just a weak version of MagneTraction.
I'll stack my old Williams GG-1 against any single motor loco that's only driving one set of wheels. Even without any traction aids like magnatraction or traction tires, it's capable of pulling 20-25 cars with ease. I have several Lionel single motor locomotives, they don't come close. It doesn't hurt that the Williams also weighs close to 7 pounds.
You're right about one thing, it's the number of driven wheels, not the presence of the dual motors, though they can't hurt.
If I ever get the urge, I can send it off to Frank Timko and for $20 a truck he'll cut two wheels for traction tires and give you the traction tires to boot. The old Williams also has the biggest can motors I've ever seen in an O-gauge locomotive, they're the size of the old Pullmor motor.
I have several Lionel single motor locomotives, they don't come close. It doesn't hurt that the Williams also weighs close to 7 pounds.
I have to agree, none of my single motor Lionel conventional diesels can come close to the pulling power of my Williams dual motor diesels. The only GG-1's that I have are from K-Line and they are super pullers, they can pull anything I throw at them but they are also dual motors with traction tires. I know Lionel has been enhancing their running gear on their conventional locomotives with mixed results from reading reviews of their conventional classic series. I just thought through this rework process that Lionel has improved the pulling power of their GG-1's.
The answer depends on two things: Your cars and your grades.
If you are asking, "Can a single-motor engine pull 6-8 heavy POSTWAR aluminum cars?" then the answer is, "Probably not".
If you have modern cars, assuming they are well lubricated, then the answer depends on your track--I suspect a single motored engine will pull modern aluminum cars over relatively level track and gentle curves just fine. For reference, I have a small Hudson (with a universal, parallel plate motor) pulling 7 modern Madison cars (very heavy, but free-rolling when lubricated) on 2% grades and O-54 curves. I have to really open it up, but it will do it. I am sure that the GG1 will have a worm drive, and in my experience, worm-driven engines are more powerful than spur-driven ones, so I would think that you would probably do no worse pulling modern aluminum cars than I have done pulling modern Madisons, given a similar layout. If you have steeper hills or tighter turns, then maybe not so well.
But the only way to know for sure is to find someone who has tried it already. If you have a single-motored diesel, why not try pulling your cars behind it? Or making friends with someone who does?
gunrunnerjohn...I'll bet money that the new GG-1 does NOT drive all 12 wheels...
Has anybody checked on this?
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