Lionel 1654 trouble with 1022 switches

[Kevin McSheridan]

Hello to all.

I have just discovered that a Lionel 1654 2-4-2 scout likes to derail when passing over 1022 post war switches!! CAN THIS BE ACCURATE???

It seems that the Wheels are geared very low (near the rail) which causes major havoc when passing over a 1022 switches. Is there a switch that was designed for this scout engine??

This is the first bit of trouble i have had with Post war compatibility. But i am new to the game of collecting/operating.

Anybody have Suggestion's,I will appreciate it.

Thanks

[lionelsoni]

I have been trying to replicate this problem with a 1110, going through 1122 and 5121 turnouts, which should all be very similar.  I don't think the problem is with the driver gears, which are not particularly close to the railheads (unlike Marx drivers, for example).  What I see is the pickup roller getting caught as it tries to climb up onto the fat center rail when moving in the trailing-point direction.  I don't see any easy fix.  The 1024 and 1121 turnouts have a very different frogless point mechanism which may make a difference, although they also have a fat rail; but I don't have any to try.

[ADCX Rob]

The 1654 was designed to work with their contemporary 1024 and 1121 switches.  It is due to the single reduction spur gearing as you have observed.

The 1655 is an almost-twin, except modified for 1948 to a double reduction gear train with cluster gears to solve the issue with bouncing over the 022 switch guard rails.  The 1122's came around in 1952.

[Kevin McSheridan]

Thanks Rob  for the info. I will continue to run the 1654 on the o27 oval.It is a very nice loco so i will keep it simple.

Thanks

[ADCX Rob]

The 1654 is a real nice running loco.  Mine will walk away with a pretty good string of cars too - I used to really open it up on the O-72 layout(no switches on that loop) I had set up on the basement floor for a few years.

If you want switches, the 1121's, both prewar & postwar, go for $15 - $20 a pair on eBay in good usable condition.  The 1654 also plays nicely with all Marx O-27 switches(metal & plastic) and Marx O-27(O-34) plastic switches.

[servoguy]

Any loco will work with the early Marx all metal switches.  They don't have anything to cause a problem with fat wheels or roller pickups.

Bruce Baker

[lionelsoni]

Rob, can you explain to me why you think the double reduction would make a difference?  The Lionel manual for the 1654 shows drivers, 1664E-31 and -32, whose gears have a major diameter smaller than the wheel tread:  http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc1654c.pdf  This should make it impossible for them to touch the guard rails.

[ADCX Rob]

The drawing on Olsen's site is an accurate rendition of the Lionel Manual, but the manual drawing is inaccurate. 

The gear teeth on the 1654 drivers extend out to a point about mid way between the wheel tread surface and the full flange depth.

[SteveC]

The problem that I have found with the 1654 motors is not the gears getting in the way, but that the flanges are too tall and they ride up on the raised section near the frog.  I have gone to lay out a floor layout to run some of my earlier locomotives as they really don't like my 5167/5168 O27/O42 radious turnouts.  I have also found that I have had to add copious amounts of tape to the sides of the center pick-up to prevent shorting with the wheels as they pass through the turn-outs.  I have some MARX 034 turnouts, but some are missing the spring ramp at the frog.  Does anyone know where I can find replacement parts for the MARX turnouts?

Steve