Can you measure the resistance? Wiretron indicates that 32 gauge is 10 ohms per foot. Your smoke unit is probably getting nice and hot. As long as it isn't slowing down your train by drawing too much current, you will probably be fine. The element life might be shortened, but now you know how to rewind it yourself.
Is the smoke safe? I don't know whether the extra hot element will cause some of the insulation to break free and become airborne. I have never heard any concern about bits of insulation breaking free. Most folks consider the pellet material itself to be harmless. It's been on the market since 1947, and no public announcment has ever said otherwise. Still, I beleive that moderation is the key. If you are concerned, you can lower the smoke output by going to 34 gauge wire (broken record), or adding another turn of wire. The original smoke elements didn't start to glow red until the voltage was turned way up.
By the way, I came up with 34 gauge by both measureing the resistance of original smoke unit wire, and using a micrometer to measure it's diameter. So there is no doubt in my mind as to the size.
thanks for all the help guys. i got a crazy amount of smoke now. i rewand the smoke unit with 32 gauge wire 7 turns and repacked it with insulation. i can see them glowing now. hey guys is that smoke mixed with the insulation safe for my 4 year old to be breathing in?
Or you could go to this site, and download their free Windows application that will tell you more about wire than you probably will ever want to know:
http://www.wiretron.com/
The utility is called " wiretronic", and can be found on the lower right side of the page (wtsetup.exe)
Incidentally, I provided the correct size, it's #34.
This might help some folks who are trying to figure the right nichrome wire size:
For the same length of wire and amount of heat, the wire diameter should be inversely proportional to the voltage. So, for example, if your smoke unit works the way you want it to at twice your normal track voltage, then you should rewind it with the same length of wire with twice the diameter, which is about 6 AWG sizes lower.
Another way to look at it is that each AWG step corresponds to a voltage factor of 1.123. So reducing the gauge number by 1 makes the smoke unit work the same at 1/1.123 times the voltage that it worked at before. These factors of 1.123 should be multiplied for each wire-gauge step. So, repeating the example above, 6 steps corresponds to a voltage reduction factor of 1 / (1.123 * 1.123 * 1.123 * 1.123 * 1.123 * 1.123), or 1.123 to the -6 power, which is .499, or 1/2.
Bob Nelson
joecass cwburfle can i put some more turns on it to make it hoter or use the next size up of wire gauge?
cwburfle can i put some more turns on it to make it hoter or use the next size up of wire gauge?
Adding extra turns (wire) will increase resistance, and decrease the temperature, lowering smoke output. Reducing the number of turns would increase smoke output. In fact this concept is a service tip from the official Lionel Service manual. I guess you could also go to a thicker wire. 33 guage would be about 13 ohms per foot. If you make the resistance too low, the smoke element will put quite a load on the transformer, and would probably burn out quickly. I wouldn't recommend it. Lionel put plenty of effort into the design. As I poster earlier, I'd wind with 34 gauge wire, for about 15 ohms. The type "A" nichrome wire has a bit less resistance, I guess you would try for that type, and go a bit lower.
green97probe CW, How did you handle the ceramic form that is on top of the mica? I gave up rewinding these because I couldn't keep the ceramic form in place.
CW,
How did you handle the ceramic form that is on top of the mica? I gave up rewinding these because I couldn't keep the ceramic form in place.
The wire itself will hold the ceramic form in place once there is a turn in place. I've rewound many smoke elements, and never had a problem.
Sorry, I didn't notice your question about wire sources earlier.I use #34 gauge Nichrome wire. It's resistance is 16.38 ohms per foot (type a), or 17 ohms per foot (type C)Years ago there was a fellow selling the wire through one of the train club buy-sell publications. I don't recall which one. The wire shows up on Ebay from time to time. People use it for other things. Just search for Nichrome wire, and look for someone selling #34 gauge. I don't think it matters whether you use type A or type C.
Before you start, check the resistance. Perhaps you got a good one.
When you wind the new wire, lace it though the eyelet without the terninal, and around the outside of the mica a few times. Then fill the eyelet with solder. Wrap the wire tightly around the mica form. Make certain the turns are evenly spaced and not touching. I think it's 6 or 7 turns. Then lace the wire through the eyelet with the terminal, and around the outside of the mica once again. Finish by wraping the end around the base of the terminal. Check the resistance. (I will have to get out my notes on the value).If the resistance is in range, fill this eyelet with solder. The solder will not stick to the nichrome wire. But filling in the eyelets will keep it in place.
The notes I have from the fellow from whom I purchased the wire indicate a resistance range of 10 to 18 ohms. I think that range is too wide. I wind for about 15 ohms.
can anyone tell me the Gauge of the nichrome wire that is in the smoke unit
thanks
Make sure you have good ground to the top/side of the unit. Check solider connections.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
cwburfle
were do you git the correct nichrome wire from also how do you rewind them?
yes the crank is in properly. it is puffing. i add cars and put some of my son's blocks in them to use more power still not much smoke. i also did not pinch a wire.
When you put it all back together did you make sure the smoke unit crank was installed properly? Its puffing, right? The wire is not pinched? You can use liquid in any pill unit. That is mostly what I use now. Try about 6 drops at a time. You may have one of those units that does not get hot enough like CW said. Try adding on more cars to make the voltage needed go up and see.
Roger
i just look at the ebay listing and it is a pill unit so do i have to use pills in it or would the liquid oil be the same? im using the liquid and not much smoke is coming out.
here it is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180638495867&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
joecass would the smoke pills work better
would the smoke pills work better
Heat melts smoke pills simular to liquid. More heat more smoke. Be sure the piston under smoke unit is traveling full up and down. I have adjusted these and made lots of difference. Especailly on the old steam turbines.
The original poster wrote that his smoke unit has been replaced.I think it would be helpful to know what was installed.Is the new one a postwar style pill unit, or a modern era liquid smoke unit?Both are commonly available as either complete units, or renewal kits. The more recent postwar (pill) renewal elements seem to be made better than the older ones. However, many of the reproductions made over the years were not wound with the correct nichrome wire, and have too much resistance. These units produce little to no smoke. I have a bunch in my parts bin, purchased directly from Madison Hardware when they were in NYC.Before using these smoke units, I rewind them with the correct wire. I cannot be the only person who still has some.
If you have a new smoke unit, air passage should be open from below. I make sure the "flapper" is traveling as far up and down as possible. There are "cooler" and "hotter" units. You can take on "wind" off of the unit as this will make the unit hotter. I'd use a few more drops too. I use Lionel and MTH and left JR's. Add few more cars [as long as starting does not spin wheels] to add more voltage to run at your normal speed.
I notice in my train room that different light conditions make smoke more or less visable. Try tossing the Lionel smoke fluid and buy some JT's Mega steam. That is all I use now. These post war trains will never belt out the smoke like the new fan driven units.
is there anyway to git the smoke to be more visible? i got a brand new smoke unit in the train and im using the lionel smoke oil. put about 6 drops in it
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