Lionel Conventional Classics Rectifier Horn/Bell

[LittleTommy]

I brought this up in the comments for Bob's Review of this set in which he mentioned that the Horn and Bell did not work for him, but I'm posting it here to see if we can get more opinions on the matter.

Did Bob just get a "lemon" or are others having the same problem with the Bell and Horn in the Virginian Rectifier Engine in this set? 

Is the problem intrisic to the type of transformer used to trigger the sounds or is it a problem with the Sound unit in the engine? (It would be useful if Bob could tell us what kind of  transformer or button he used to try to trigger the sounds during his review of this set).

Are some types of transformers just not good to use with this engine and are some particularly problem free with Lionel sound units?

Little Tommy

 

[TRAINCAT]

I do not have a new CC set, but the first ones, The GG1 and FM trainmasters had the same problems. The QC of the new units seems to be in question again too.

Rob

[Tootle]

Well, these may be Conventional Classics, but the sounds don't respond to classic transformer whistle controls.  I just opened my rectifier set last week and fired it up with a 1033 transformer.  The horn/bell had no reaction to the transformer's whistle control, but when I hooked up a couple of 6-5906 sound activation buttons mlike it says in the instructions (Instructions? Who reads instructions?) both the horn and the bell worked just fine.

I have to believe Bob Keller got a bad unit.  I can't imagine that he didn't wire it up properly......? :)

[Bob Keller]

I tried it with a Z-4000 and an Atlas O Transformer. There was nothing to "wire up properly." 

[TRAINCAT]

 I have heard that a Z-4000 will not sound the CC horn/bell. My Z-1000 did though.  I first tried the horn on the GG1 with a Lionel KW. It blew a couple times correctly, then changed to a warbling sound after that. From then on, no matter what transformer I used it didn't sound right.  I don't know what happened.

 

Roger

[Captaincog]

My conventional classic Orbitor blows the whistle on my CW80 and PWC ZW but then the bell will start ringing randomly and not always respond to being shut off. I have noticed that it gets worse the longer it runs, so I think that the circuits are getting noise feedback from the pullmor motors. Since the wires on the windings are not the same as the original postwar pullmors and then resistance generated produces not only heat but signal noise and I think this is what we are seeing.

Yes, they should have been engineered and built better in my opinion.

[luther_stanton]

I have the Thunderbird set and had similar issues.  I am using a PWC ZW  - other engines have horn / bell that work correctly so I know that it was not something with wiring, track, transformer, etc.  It worked at first and after a week or so the horn would only blow at certain points on the layout. Immediately tested with another engine which had no issues.

I took it to a Lionel service center, where of course it worked perfectly on the test track.  They ordered a new sound board from Lionel and replaced it.  Got it home - worked for a few weeks and started acting up again intermittently.

I have found that if the e-unit is in neutral the horn and bell work every time.  If the loco is moving, the horn and bell will work at times.

- Luther

[ezmike]

The issue of have bell or horn but not both with Post War transformers was widely discussed when the first Conventional Classics came out. Since PW transformers were not made for both sounds you will only get one when you depress the whistle switch. Which one I do not recall. To get both each and every time you will need the 5906 Sound Activation Button. I find that with only one it's hit or miss and sometimes the bell will not turn off but with 2, they each work every time. I'm sure there are others out here that can explain it in technical detail so I'll leave it to them. I do agree that perhaps some consideration should have been given to use with other modern transformers though.

Just my $.02.

Mike

[gunrunnerjohn]

Older transformers parallel the rectifier with a low value resistor after the initial contact to allow for the current drawn by a traditional motorized whistle.  Electronic whistles don't draw any significant current, and thus the resistor swamps the DC and the electronics doesn't recognize sufficient DC to activate the whistle.  Usually, this happens when the train is stationary, since the train motors will also help drop voltage across the shunt resistor.

 

 

[Warburton]

Ditto with my new Virginian Rectifier. I got the horn to beep once but have been unable to replicate that success. I am using a postwar TW transformer and it activates other recent Lionel horns and whistles OK (not great) -- you have to hit it just right -- but no luck with this new CC unit so far. However, since I did get it to beep once, I know it can work.

Very frustrating.