Lionel 3459 & 3469 dump cars

[kgstones]

I've just started to accumulate a few dump cars for the kids to use and am really impressed with the way they were built back in the 40s and 50s compared to the newer ones.  I have several of the coal dump cars, 3469.  I'm also planning to get some of the log dump cars.

I'd appreciate if someone would explain what the differences are between the pre and post war versions which I think are the 3459 (pre-war) and 3469 (post-war).

One thing that seems to be mentioned about the 3459 cars are coil couplers.  Are they different on the 3469 cars or are all Lionel couplers coil couplers?

Anything else different about them?

Thanks much!

Mickey

PS.  Opps I just found some old posts that I should have checked first.  And I don't know how to delete this one.   Sorry....

[ADCX Rob]

 

 

All Postwar.  The 3559 and 3459 have "coil couplers" or electro-magnetic couplers.  the 3469's have magnetic couplers.  Read HERE for the differences/explanation/operation.

The 3659:

and 3859:

Are prewar items.

[kgstones]

Thanks for the info.  So both 3459 and 3469 coal dump cars are postwar.  But the 3459 has coil couplers and the 3469 has magnetic couplers.  What uncouples a coil coupler?

And it's the same with the log dump cars?  The 3451 has coil couplers and the 3461 has magnetic couplers.

Thanks, Mickey

[ADCX Rob]

kgstones

Thanks for the info.  So both 3459 and 3469 coal dump cars are postwar.  But the 3459 has coil couplers and the 3469 has magnetic couplers.  What uncouples a coil coupler?

Read the first two paragraphs HERE.

kgstones

And it's the same with the log dump cars?  The 3451 has coil couplers and the 3461 has magnetic couplers.

Thanks, Mickey

Correct.  Many rolling stock items had just a minor catalog number change when the coupler type was changed.  This theme was rampant, though, for many Lionel Items throughout the Postwar era.  Minor changes sometimes got new numbers, sometimes not(like from "staple-end" to "bar-end" trucks did not).

[kgstones]

I'm learning a lot, thank you.

So the coil couplers on the 3451 and 3459 cars are operated by the slider shoes that contact the inner rails on the USC or 6019 track.  But so is the unloading feature.  So is that why I was reading that when one of those cars are on the USC/6019 track they uncouple and unload at the same time and those functions can not be done separately?  Or if one was to park one of those cars half way on the USC track only the coupler at that end would work.  But it sounds like you can't unload without uncoupling.  Or not.....

Thanks, Mickey

[ADCX Rob]

When you push the unload button, ONE coupler will open.  It depends on which way the car is facing, as it will always be the coupler on the truck(and shoe) sitting over the "hot" activation rail(the other is ground - common with the car chassis and trucks, & track). 

When you push "uncouple", both activation rails get center rail power("hot"), and the car does not unload.  Any electro-magnetic coupler truck with a shoe on an activation rail will uncouple.

[kgstones]

Seems like a flaw to me.  Would be frustrating when operating a string of cars.  Maybe that's why they went with the 3469 cars.  I sure appreciate all the information - learned a lot.  Thanks, Mickey

[rlbarnard]

Hi,

Just a note regarding operating cars that make contact with power blades: The distance between a pair of shoes on electromagnetic couplers is not the same as the distance between a pair of shoes on magnetic couplers. I found this out with dump cars and the older coaling station. The problem can be solved by making power blades that are longer.

Dick

[kgstones]

Just so I understand this correctly - the electromagnetic couplers are also what everyone is referring to as coil couplers that are activated through the sliding shoes under the trucks and the magnetic couplers are the most recent couplers that are activated by the magnets in the center rail.  I've been buying dump cars, 3469 and 3461, and should avoid buying the 3459 and 3451 cars if I want to stick solely to magnetic couplers which sound to me to be best suited for operation by young children.

Thanks again to all,  Mickey

[ADCX Rob]

kgstones

Just so I understand this correctly - the electromagnetic couplers are also what everyone is referring to as coil couplers that are activated through the sliding shoes under the trucks and the magnetic couplers are the most recent couplers that are activated by the magnets in the center rail.

If by "recently" you mean for the last 63 years, then yes.

I've been buying dump cars, 3469 and 3461, and should avoid buying the 3459 and 3451 cars if I want to stick solely to magnetic couplers which sound to me to be best suited for operation by young children.

Thanks again to all,  Mickey

The system goes back to the Prewar era... if you unloaded a 3659 or 3859, gravity would re-close the coupler and the train would proceed as if the uncoupling never happened.  This all changed in 1945 with the introduction of the spring-loaded knuckle coupler.

[kgstones]

Thanks again.  Yes, recently, as in the last type of coupler developed.