Gray Cat:
You need, "...one speed, one gear." You need to... "have a different constitution..." You should "...have a different brain, have a different heart." Get Flyer "...blood, man".
IOW's, Gray Cat - it's a start, brother of 2-rail. It's a start.
Regards,
Timboy, The Charlie Sheen - Soon To Be The Mel Gibson of CTT
Timboy Gray Cat: I hate to tell you this, but the term E-unit comes from the dark side! If it's Flyer, the correct term is reverse unit or mechanical reverse unit. You old tender thumper! What your reverse unit needs is some in-house rehab! Regards, Timboy, The Charlie Sheen of CTT
I hate to tell you this, but the term E-unit comes from the dark side! If it's Flyer, the correct term is reverse unit or mechanical reverse unit. You old tender thumper! What your reverse unit needs is some in-house rehab!
Timboy, The Charlie Sheen of CTT
I've washed my hands several times, disinfected the keyboard and run virus scan on my computer.. do you think I'll be ok Tim?
Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.
Rich:
There is a special place for you...
Let's rock.
Timboy, The CharLay Sheen of CTT
I solved the problem with an even more elegant solution. I replaced mine with a Dallee Electronic Reversing Unit.
Rich
Alton Junction
Though I personally think that the Lionel E-unit is a more elegant design, I do have to give you this one:
green97probe I can service a Gilbert unit with only two hands
I can service a Gilbert unit with only two hands
Green97Probe:
I hope you wear scrubs, mask and exam gloves, then disinfect the whole room after you are done repairing a Lionel POC, so your Flyer solid gold doesn't get contaminated!
Good point by you about evilBay! I have had to sell some stuff from time to time and I've done it with both free shipping and you-pay-for-my-thumb-on-the-scale shipping. I've pretty much concluded, for the reasons you stated, that when I've sold with free shipping, all I've accomplished is to screw myself out of $5-10.
OBTW: I watched your vids. I hope that 3-rail track was for prewar Flyer! I see you have trouble getting an SIT smoke cap put back on with one hand, too! That diesel roar on the NCL is about the best I've heard, but doesn't that get awfully irritating after a while? Great restoration job on the Probe!
I've worked on reversing units from both Lionel and Gilbert, and I prefer Gilbert here. I can service a Gilbert unit with only two hands, and I don't offend anyone within earshot during a rebuild. Plus, I've never had to replace a drum in a Gilbert unit. Every Lionel reversing unit that I've worked on either has the drum distorted, or one of the pins sheared off the end.
Timboy,
Only $2K...really? WIll you pay the shipping? I only bid without reading first, then leave a negative because the shipping actually cost something.
If you won't bite on the 2K how 'bout a coupla "rocks".. oh that's right you're clean...
For what it's worth. The E-Unit is one of the "sticky" points of Flyer. I'm not admitting that it's inferior to it's competition on the dark side of the force *cough*, it's just a weak point. Most of us Flyer guys know all about the dreaded tender tap movement, known in some cases to be a contributing factor in Carpal Train Tunnel Syndrome.
With that said I pay extra special attention to my E-Units when servicing a locomotive. A dirty drum can cause erratic movement of the loco. This may not be for everyone but I take off at least one set of fingers by gently twisting the metal that holds them in place. I then like to use a small fiberglass brush to slowly and gently "polish" the drum. It can be rotated around manually so you can get all the spots. I find this seems to work a little better than just spraying contact cleaner on it. It does take care and patience. This also gives me the opportunity to more closely inspect the fingers. This same fiberglass brush can be used to polish the commutator face. Before reassembly I always stretch the brush springs ever so slightly to make sure they are putting adequate pressure on the brushes, since they seem to lose strength and length over time.
And of course don't forget to clean the pickup wheels and make sure there is adequate pressure on each pickup axle from the contact plates.. a helpful tool I have is a set of pinball contact bending tools these can be used to reform or bend this to put just a little pressure on the axle.. if you really want to go the extra mile while you have the tender open you can reflow the solder joints on the pickups. I have also seen where someone has been there before me leaving a cold solder joint.
Timboy Gosh. Okay. $2K and I'll let it go, but don't expect positive feedback unless YOU leave it first!
Gosh. Okay. $2K and I'll let it go, but don't expect positive feedback unless YOU leave it first!
Hey, Charlie, I will give you two grand for that Silver Bullet.
Mel G
Major:
If it wasn't for goofing off at work, I wouldn't have worked at all! Buddah-bing!
I have one set of drive rods on one way and the other on the other way. THAT way, I am always - well, correct by SOME standard. Anyway, I do try. A couple guys on this forum would state that I am trying!
Timboy, Yeah - You Know
My mistake just shows that I need to quit goofing off at work even when it is on my own time. But I was surprised to see in many photos how many of us have put the drive rods on backwards. Timboy you are only asking 1k for the silver bullet?! It looks great Heck you should go for 2k!
OMG! I switched all of the drive rods on all of my steamers - based on your testimony - and now I have to change them all back!!!! WTF!!!!
Just kidding. Actually, I bad with you. I saw what you posted and meant to make a respectful reply, but got distracted by the thought of selling my Silver Bullet on eBay for $1k or more.
Gee, I hope we don't get a black eye on an otherwise solid gold American Flyer after-thought on this 3-rail forum.
Oops.
Timboy, The Charlie Sheen of American Flyer
I apologize. I did more checking and for your locomotived the round bump goes to the back. This is per original catalog pictures.
The round bump goes to the front, and the hole was made oblong and is not due to wear.
Hello again!
Thanks to the replies of many, the 290 is almost back to its old self. (I also found a very helpful article on American Flyer reverse units in the August 1990 CTT.) Engine and reverse unit have both bench-tested OK, so now it is time to put all the pieces back on, and....
SOMEBODY forgot which way the siderods go.
I note there is a decorative round bump on each rod (supposed to represent a joint on the prototype, I guess). I am sure I remember that bump being closer to the rear driver, but the exploded diagram I have seen shows it closer to the front.\
Also, on each rod, one of the holes is not round, but oblong. Is that supposed to be that way, or is it the result of wear?
Thanks again!
nickaix,
That is correct you should be able to "unplug the jack to seperate the tender from the locomotive.
The next thing I suggest is to remove the two brass brush caps, with wires from the back of the motor, do this carefully, and that should allow the springs and brushes to come out. Next remove the two screws, part # 35 and pull the brush holder, part #32 in the exploded diagram out. Now you can slide the commutator out, part # 31, be sure to watch for small spacers, washers, should be one on each end of the commutator shaft. Clean the copper surface of the commutator with electrical contact cleaner, and then clean the grooves with a toothpick. If you also remove part # 21 you can clean out the old hardened grease and replace it with nice new clean stuff.
I would then reassemble and try the locomotive. I would do this much and test before going any farther, if you have problems it is easier to know they are limited to the motor cleaning you have done.
If the reverse unit, or e-unit is sticking, that is in the tender it can also be sprayed with electrical contact cleaner and a q-tip. Be carefull with the q-tip you don't want the cotton getting caught on the little fingers and bending them. I use q-tips my wife HAD for makeup, they are smaller and work great.
Good luck, keep us posted,
George
All the original 290's I have seen have a four wire jack panel at the top rear of the cab. Just carefully unplug it. The linkage on the 290 is relatively simple to remove and reinstall. Just be careful not to bend anything, the linkage is easy to bend or distort. The 290 will need a good cleaning of the commutator, shaft bearings and a possible brush replacement. All the ones I serviced had a hard buildup of old lubricant on the worm gear and and its mating gear. The 290 has always been a good runner when cleaned and reassembled. The reversing unit is in the tender and should be checked for proper performance. Take off the tender shell and observe the reverse unit functioning with the tender chassis on the track under power. If the fingers have visible burn through at the drum contact point they should be replaced.
Tom
Thanks for the replies, everyone! There is a jack panel attached to the cab on this one: it appears that there are two pieces of fiberboard up against each other. I think I will try, gingerly, to separate them and see if that does it.
No doubt I'll be back asking for more advice as the week goes on, but I think I now know enough to begin anyway!
AF53 Stebbycentral - Again, I'll state that I don't own one, a 290, but I believe the wires from the tender go to a jack panel on the rear of the loco. Which you should be able to pry them out (but be careful) I have eased some away useing a small flathead screwdriver (very carefully). I looked at a diagram of a 283 and it also shows a jack panel. I'm womdering if my information is wrong? Please let me know. Thanks Ray
Stebbycentral - Again, I'll state that I don't own one, a 290, but I believe the wires from the tender go to a jack panel on the rear of the loco. Which you should be able to pry them out (but be careful) I have eased some away useing a small flathead screwdriver (very carefully). I looked at a diagram of a 283 and it also shows a jack panel. I'm womdering if my information is wrong? Please let me know.
Thanks
Ray
Hi Ray,
I know what you are talking about, because I have an Atlantic with a jack. But my 290 is wired straight through, no jack. The wiring looks to be OEM, and it's not spliced anywhere.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Lionel Guy,
Myself I would inspect brushes for wear or poor contact. Check brush spring for proper tension. Then check the soldering joints on the jack panel for broken or lose wires.
If these steps do not correct the problem you may have to disassemble the locomotive and inspect the motor. I find most of the time these old American flyer trains just need a good cleaning. Good luck, take your time, and it doesn't hurt to take picture as you go if you have a good digital camera.
You may check my web site on "Common Repairs for Electric Trains" American Flyer.
AZ-Flyer
“Tell me and I’ll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I’ll understand.”
AZ-Flyer@American Flyer Cabinet-top Layout (5'x16'): http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/
I forgot to mention above...Not being a pro at service/repair, before I diconnect the wires from the jack panel I mark in advance as to which wires go back into which holes. Not sure why but better safe than sorry.
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
nickaix No, I haven't "seen the light" But a woman at church heard I was into trains and asked if I could service hers. It is a 290 with a link coupler on the tender. She says that it runs, but slowly, and sometimes with a lurch. Having serviced a number of Lionels, but never a Flyer, I come humbly before the experts looking for advice! Specifically, Is there anything I need to know before disassembly? Are drawings available for this engine (so I can put everything back together again!)? What voltage range indicates proper operation? Does this engine have a "chugger" and what service does it need? What do I need to know about the reverse unit? And whatever else you think I need to know would be much appreciated!
No, I haven't "seen the light"
But a woman at church heard I was into trains and asked if I could service hers. It is a 290 with a link coupler on the tender. She says that it runs, but slowly, and sometimes with a lurch. Having serviced a number of Lionels, but never a Flyer, I come humbly before the experts looking for advice! Specifically,
Is there anything I need to know before disassembly?
Are drawings available for this engine (so I can put everything back together again!)?
What voltage range indicates proper operation?
Does this engine have a "chugger" and what service does it need?
What do I need to know about the reverse unit?
And whatever else you think I need to know would be much appreciated!
I have a 283 which is mechanically similar to a 290. The 283 being a later version of the same locomotive, only with a plastic body and tender shell.
You already have a link to an assembly diagram, I understand. I would also suggest to look at this link for a wiring diagram: http://www.rfgco.com/wiringdiagrams.html
The voltage range for AF powerpacks of the time was 7 to 15 volts.
The "chugger" is a mechanical piston unit attached to the smokebox. It operates off of a gear driven by the motor worm drive. Assuming all parts are unbroken, the only service it would require is lubrication.
What you need to know about the reverse unit is that they are twitchy. Common points of failure are the electromagnet, the pawl and drum assembly, and most commonly the contact fingers. Repair parts for all of these items are usually available on eBay. The unit can be bypassed if you only want a locomotive that runs in one direction. And the same Dalee unit that is sold for replacement of Lionel reverse units works just fine on an AF locomotive.
Yuo mentioned removing the wiring harness. In my 283 both ends of the harness are hardwired to their respective connections. I would leave it intact unless there is evidence that there is a broken connection somewhere. If you disassemble the motor, you will have to remove the clips that hold in the brushes, but you don't have to unsolder anything to do this. The reson I suspect you will be taking apart the motor is because that is quite possibly where your "lurch" is located. Look for missing or broken thrust bearings.
Thank you both! The hobby surplus link was particularly helpful. Here's another question: how does one handle the tender tether when disassembling the engine? Is there a more or less easy way to disconnect the tender altogether, or should I leave everything connected?
Kalmbach has a manual
View a portion of this product!
Author: Dick TealSoftcover; 5 1/4 x 8; 112 pages; 100 color photos; ISBN: 9780897785297
Also Hobby Surplus sells an excellent manualhttp://www.hobbysurplus.com/repairbooks.asp#chdaflocobook
Nickaix - Since I don't own a 290 my help to you is limited. It was made from 1949-1951 and it should have a smoke and chugger in the boiler. If and when you dismantle it there might be a month and year stamped on the inside of the boiler. Maybe others can help you more.
Try this link http://www.hobbysurplus.com/xviews/290slcHSS.asp (no pun intended) for a diagram.
Good luck
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