06Feb2011,
All,
I have limited space to build a layout and my current layout is 4' x 5', and is basically a piece of high density engineered wood on top of a small table. I would like to build a "larger" layout of 4' x 6' for the corner of my office using a bench work design, like I see in CTT magazine. Because of my budget, I thinking of using 1" x 4" for the frame work, with several cross braces. Instead of 1/2' plywood for the tabletop, I am considering using 1/4" peg-board, topped with a sheet of 1/2" pick foam board.
My question is has anyone used pegboard for their tabletop? I am hoping it will not warp. Thanks.
-Waveland
P.S. It would be nice for CTT to considered featuring articles on small layouts under 4' x 8'. I image their are many Toy Train lovers out there who have limited space, but love the hobby.
What scale?
Jim
O scale (I use the basic Lionel Fastrak for my smaller Williams locomotives and rolling stock).
You bet pegboard will warp! It's essentially 1/4" masonite with holes in it. I am assuming you are considering it only because you can get a supply cheap? Although I cannot say that I have ever used it laminated with foam, so I cannot speak to that specifically.
I also question your choice for the frame. In my experience 1 x 4 material is not stiff enough, unless used with 1 x 2's in an "L-girder" format. A few years back I built a couple of 48" long display modules using 1 x 4 framing and 1/4 plywood for the top. Over time the modules warped along the long axis. Ultimately I had to rebuild the frame with 1 x 6 members. That was a lot of fun with the track and scenery still in place I assure you. Essentially I worked from the bottom and replaced one board at a time. The 1 x 6 has not warped todate.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
07 Feb 2011
Thank you for the feedback! I will take your recommendations. You're right about the pg-board. As I was pricing lumber, I saw the price of a sheet of nice plywood and balked! I then started to look at other material and saw the pegboard. As I am fairley new to the toy train hobby, I wanted to ask. I will also go with the larger boards for the frames, possibly 2x4s? Thanks again for your response.
waveland 07 Feb 2011 Thank you for the feedback! I will take your recommendations. You're right about the pg-board. As I was pricing lumber, I saw the price of a sheet of nice plywood and balked! I then started to look at other material and saw the pegboard. As I am fairley new to the toy train hobby, I wanted to ask. I will also go with the larger boards for the frames, possibly 2x4s? Thanks again for your response. -Waveland
Try and find a book on basic model railroad construction, and look up "L-girder" framing. It's a method of building strong benchwork using the lighter pieces of lumber by incorporating simple principles of structural engineering. It sounds intimidating, but it's really quite easy to build. It also allows for great flexibility in layout design.
Hi!
If you haven't already, you can read through this thread to see how this member built his framing.
For the size layout that you are considering, a 1' x 4" frame would be suitable, but I would stick with 1/2" plywood for the surface, screwed down with 1 1/4" coarse thread drywall screws.
One thing about 1' x 4" wood is that it is actually only 3/4" x 3 1/2". I would, and do, use 2" x 4" wood for the framing with 1/2" plywood surface. If braced properly, you could sleep on the table, once built.
I agree with stebbycentral about the pegboard. That stuff is weak and will warp very easily and very quickly.
Rich
Alton Junction
Don't use drywall screws in any place where their failure could be dangerous. They are very brittle and not intended for structural purposes.
Bob Nelson
I agree. I use deck screws on structural elements and save the drywall screws for auxiliary support items such as accessory platforms, attaching subroadbed to risers, etc. To mitigate any wood splitting and weakening of the joinery, I pre-drill and counter-sink for all the screws. But before I do either of those, I fit and clamp the pieces together if at all possible. It is so much easier to join two pieces of wood together if they are first clamped firmly together. To make sure that the two pieces are clamped together correctly, you could make a "witness" mark with a pencil on both pieces during the dry-fit. Not to get too carpentery, but a level and square are nice to have around as well when building. Tip: never try to force two pieces of wood to join correctly. If one is warped or twisted or too long or too short and the dry-fit isn't square and nice, discard it and cut another one. The waste is nothing compared to the frustration of what a warped or mis-cut piece of wood will cause down-the-road if you force-fit it. I know that building bench work isn't building a piano, but sloppily-built bench work creates more problems than you will want to deal with. So, do the bench work correctly and you will have a wonderful foundation to build upon. It is a sheer joy to build upon a nicely-built foundation.
http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
Regards,
Timboy, The S-Gauge Nerd
2/11
Rich,
Thank you for the good advice!
Timboy,
Thank you for these good tips! I shooting to begin tomorrow!
lionelsoni Don't use drywall screws in any place where their failure could be dangerous. They are very brittle and not intended for structural purposes.
Generally, I would agree with Bob about the use of drywall screws, particularly in construction for structural purposes.
However, the use of drywall screws to secure 1/2" plywood to wood framework is an acceptable use, at least in my opinion. On the early layouts, I used construction grade nails to build my 2" x 4" framework. However, on my current layout, I used coarse thread 3 1/2 " drywall screws, and I am pleased with the results. Since it is really not "load bearing" framework in the construction or structural sense, once again, I believe that the use of drywall screws for this purpose is acceptable, at least in my opinion.
Timboy To mitigate any wood splitting and weakening of the joinery, I pre-drill and counter-sink for all the screws. But before I do either of those, I fit and clamp the pieces together if at all possible. It is so much easier to join two pieces of wood together if they are first clamped firmly together.
To mitigate any wood splitting and weakening of the joinery, I pre-drill and counter-sink for all the screws. But before I do either of those, I fit and clamp the pieces together if at all possible. It is so much easier to join two pieces of wood together if they are first clamped firmly together.
Amen, as to the clamping of wood before screwing. Otherwise, any warped or bowed wood will pull away from the mate it is to be joined to during the screwing process.
Timboy Tip: never try to force two pieces of wood to join correctly. If one is warped or twisted or too long or too short and the dry-fit isn't square and nice, discard it and cut another one. The waste is nothing compared to the frustration of what a warped or mis-cut piece of wood will cause down-the-road if you force-fit it.
Tip: never try to force two pieces of wood to join correctly. If one is warped or twisted or too long or too short and the dry-fit isn't square and nice, discard it and cut another one. The waste is nothing compared to the frustration of what a warped or mis-cut piece of wood will cause down-the-road if you force-fit it.
I couldn't agree more. My son and I built a deck onto the back of his house a couple of summers ago.
We used 1" x 6" cedar for the top rail of the handrails on the perimeter of the deck. We had a 16' piece of cedar that was cupped, shaped like a banana if you will. A neighbor who was helping us ran home and got some pipe clamps and we straightened that top rail out enough to screw it down. The next summer we replaced that 16' top rail with a new board because it was pulling the entire span of railing out of line. As Tim says, pick your lumber carefully and don't hesitate to discard a bad one and cut another one.
If it is that small then you could always use a sheet of Luan Plywood to make it strong and light. There is no sense making the layout weigh a ton, unless you plan on standing on it for an emergency escape from your office.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Andrew Falconer If it is that small then you could always use a sheet of Luan Plywood to make it strong and light. There is no sense making the layout weigh a ton, unless you plan on standing on it for an emergency escape from your office. Andrew
I agree! My 5x8 "O", 4x6 "S", and 4x6 Christmas layouts, as well as my 4x3 show modules are all Luan with 1x3 inch poplar frames and 1x2 inch supports. All but the modules are held up with saw-horses. What is with the 3/4" Plywood and 2X4 framing for small layouts??? Must be a "macho" thing.
Hi:
I believe the concept some of us are promoting is that if you are building a serious model RR - especially in the larger gauges, it's best to plan for it to be stable to last the 20 years or so it will take to build it. Depending on the track plan, it also might require stability enough to be able to support an adult or two with full body weight on it easily without sagging or other signs of stress. That's because - again if it's a serious model RR - it will probably have some serious landscaping that might require the builder(s) to be on top of the layout periodically. Either that or some kind of portable and/or collapsible scaffolding that can span the RR to the very back or some strategically-placed pop-ups or other means of access to all areas. But as you may gather from all the above, there are lots of factors to consider when designing the support for it. For lesser and more temporary toy train layouts, even a 2" sheet of foam insulation with minimal under-support would suffice. But in the end, unless it must adhere to either a national or a club standard, it's totally up to you! Personally, I would rather be "guilty" of over-building rather than under-building. But probably also a good consideration is how much of a hassle it's going to be for our widows/widowers to have torn down someday.
Now I'll tell you how NOT to build a layout!
First you get a job working on the loading dock of a home center, mine was Builder's Square, so you can get your hands on some pallets. You'll also need a friend who's cleaning out his basement and throwing away the pieces of the bar his father built, and an aunt who can give you a 4 foot high wooden bookcase from an office that closed. You'll also need a slightly bent metal shelving unit, a couple of 2 by 4's and some C-clamps!
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Becky:
Wow! Coooooooool. You go, girl! THAT is what I call being resourceful! I believe we all could benefit from reading a chapter of the Book of Becky.
Timboy, The American Flyer Nerd
Well it certainly aint about building things on the "straight and level" I can tell ya that much!
Ha! Thanks Becky!
Waveland
Laughed out loud at your description of your benchwork, Becky!
Well....it's not that bad, just hinky!
I probably should mention that the pallets I used were 3 foot by 4 foot slabs of 3/4" bc plywood with 3, 2 by 4's nailed on the bottom of each one. They were used by Armstrong to ship ceramic tile which is why they were so heavy duty. I grabbed them one at a time and attached 2 by 4 legs with carriage bolts and clamped them together to make the layout easy to disassemble. The section built from the top of a bar was L-shaped 1/2" BC plywood backed with 2 by 2's and that's the section that sits on top of the bookcase. The bookcase isn't easy to get to though! Between the bar top and the main section of the layout I dropped in a 2' by 2' section of 1/4" BC on 2 by 4 legs. There's also a 12" wide dogleg off the opposite end of the bar section and that's the one supported by old metal shelving units.
The only real mistake I can say that I know I made was in not adding any lateral supports under the pallets between the 2 by 4's. As you can imagine, I've developed some sagging over the last 15 years which is one of the big reasons why I'm tearing the layout down and building a new one. I'll add new supports and strengthen what I need to but overall I'm keeping the same platform. Bookcase and all!
Becky your description of your layout framing is GREAT! I have also experienced sagging in the last 15 years but that is another matter all together. . It is amazing how resourceful model railroaders are and the lenghts that we will go through to create our miniature worlds.
I am a firm devotee of the "L" Girder style of building, which yields a quite sturdy base with relatively low weight that can be covered with a multitude of surfaces.
My grandson's Thomas & Friends layout, currently in the livingroom, as well as my seasonal layouts in the garage use this style of benchwork. Thomas & Friends have survived several moves around the livingroom as well as serving as the Christmas Tree stand during the holidays for about 5+ years. The garage layout gets pretty well stripped down to the basics and re-incarnated every year after standing against a wall from one year to the next.
Just my .
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