1. Civil War toy trains 2. hiatus

[FJ and G]

1. Civil War-era toy trains are beginning to populate the toy train catalogs. Who knows, perhaps Civil War-themed layout will start appearing more frequently now that they are becoming more and more available?

Question #1. Can anyone tell me when the first Civil War locomotive toy train (or Gauge 1) was produced and by which toy train company? The answer is important to a project I'm working on.

Question #2. Can anyone tell me when the first Civil War toy soldiers were first produced and perhaps by which company? Again, important.

2. I will be taking a hiatus from the forums to continue work on a screenplay that I started working on over the weekend, but posting occasionally to keep in touch and working on my layout intermittently.

I have the entire 3-act/plot points outlined already so I'm off to a very good start. The screenplay, I think you will be happy to know, includes important scenes featuring toy trains and real trains. It is a collaborative effort.

Dave Vergun

[ChiefEagles]

Just remember, "Hell no, the war ain't over!" We are just taking a short repose before we go and whip those YANKS. [;)] Seems that eevry western I saw this weekend had trains in them.

[Anonymous]

1. Well, I believe that the first toy train to be specifically produced with a Civil War theme was Lionel's General set in 1957. Of course, before that, toy trains had been made that were simmilar to the types of trains that ran during the Civil War. I suppose that you could go back to wooden toy trains that existed during the 1860's, but I assume that you mean a train that was sold with a Civil War theme as one of its features, in which case it's the Lionel General.

2. That's very interesting to hear. I wish you the best of luck in writting it and hope that it will eventually get produced into a movie! I myself have written a couple screenplays and several scripts for a sitcom with plans to write more this summer. It's great to hear that it has scenes with trains. On the various topics about trains in movies there's many complaints about ridiculous and innacurate mistakes that are made, so it's good to know that a movie with trains is actually being written by someone who knows about the sbuject. I've included trains in some of my own scripts or else hidden inside jokes or puns that only railfans or toy train enthusiasts will notice.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Sask,

I can't guarantee that the screen play will even be accepted but it'll be a heck of a story. Also, can't guarantee complete accuracy of the story because once it's in the hands of the director, he can pretty much do what he wishes unless there's a clause in your contract.

Also, I need to make the setting of the train layout around 1910-15 when there weren't any Civil War sets (you'd think there would have been Civil War sets at that time because it was the last big war that people remembered but apparently they didn't have nostalgia for the 4-4-0s the way we do today for big steam of the 50s). So, I'll be using some creative license and the only ones who will know will be the toy train buffs.

Again, I'm on hiatus as I'm really busy writing this now.

Cheers.

Dave Vergun

[jkerklo]

No Dave. You can't go on a hiatus. Your topics are half the reason I check this forum regularly.

If the screenplay has trains in it, maybe we can help.

OK gang. Who else doesn't want Dave to go into "hiatus?"


John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

OK, John,

I'll try & stay in touch via the hot coffee post on a fairly regular basis. I'm also working on my layout (but at a reduced pace). In fact, took more photos of the track I'm building on Saturday and will be soldering the points this week to have complete photos of a single turnout. But before I post the pictures on my website, I'd like to complete the other 3 turnouts on the crossover to get an overall type view, fully scenicked & containing trains.

I'd like to give you the whole screenplay but I'm advised not to, but I can say it has Civil War trains and toy trains in it as a vehicle to move the characters and story line along.

I think I mentioned that if it isn't accepted, will turn it into a novel. The whole process may take some time.

Also, have other ideas for screenplays & novels as well; some w/trains, some not.

For those of you following my track laying ideas, here's some additional thoughts:

In laying my own track (027), I'm using the "Check Rail" technique once used by real railroads. First, lay out a single rail and then use it to measure the distance to the other rail. It makes laying track easier as there is a lot less measuring to do.

The frog seems intimidating but it's not. If the flanges don't pass thru, the Dremel w/cutoff wheel can slice the flangeway. If you slice off too much, simply add more J.B. Weld and do over again. The cutoff wheel even can slice the rail if too close.

Using spikes thruout instead of glue as it allows me to realign the track where needed.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

For your train layout, I would suggest that you use ealy American trains like Carlisle and Finch or else some early European trains made for the American market such as Marklin or Bing. Some of them resemble the old steam engines used during the Civil War. With Civil War flags and soldiers, they would look very good for creating that type of train. You could have electric, clockwork or live steam powered.

For example, here is a gauge 1 clockwork 4-4-0 made by the German firm of Carette for the US market. Carette went out of business in WWI due to political reasons (the company's owners were French.), so that gives you an idea of how old it is. I can see this doing quite well for the train you want.



Here's a Carlisle & Finch locomotive that would do good as well. It's over 100 years old. The B&O was even around during the Civil War.



On my own computer at home, I have some pictures saved of simmilar trains that I could e-mail you if you'd like. The manufacturers of these trains offered many, often elaborate assories to go with their trains. Of course, these trains are anything but cheap! The values on them are amongst the highest as far as toy trains go. Of course, for the movie they would obviously have to be borrowed from collectors. Some of the European companies did offer military trains, which might look like something from the Civil War. I can think of a flatcar hauling a cannon that was made.

I would love to see a movie with a train layout like that in it! Hopefully, if it does get sold, the director won't simply be lazy and decide to use modern trains, rather than try to locate old ones. I once saw a TV show that took place in the 1800's that fetured LGB trains!

[FJ and G]

Sask,

Can you email them to me at [e-mail]? That would be great. Obviously it is up to the director how to portray this but I could suggest in the directions "Carlisle & Finch locomotive" and besides, some of the trains could be "scratchbuilt." (as could the CW soldiers--woodcarved perhaps)

Also, I'd like to include a wet-cell transformer in the picture as this is right after turn of century..

Does anyone in toy train land know how long wet cell batteries were used?

Would make for some really creative visuals!

Again, thanks,

Dave Vergun

[garyseven]

Screenplay?!? You mean the actors don't make it up as they go along?!? [;)]

[FJ and G]

Sask,

Thanks for the photos and descriptions. That was really nice of you. I esp. enjoyed some of the more primitive ones and some of the strip-rail track.

The only other problem that remains is that it is important that there be smoke coming from the engine. If I'm not mistaken, smoke didn't get "invented" until the 30s or 40s.

Perhaps someone can chime in here.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

That's great, Dave. I'm always glad to help someone out. As for smoke, before smoke units were first introduced after WWII, many children made their own smoke units by putting tobacco, incense, etc. down the smokestacks of their engines and burning it while the train ran. Not exactly the safest or healthiest thing to do, but that's what they did and it's about the best I can come up with. Of course, in a movie, people see smoke comming from an engine and don't know what it actually is that's making it. It would make an interesting scene having the layout's ownerfilling his engines up with tobacco.

[FJ and G]

Thanks again, Sask,

Learned something new again reg. smoke. Course they were all die-cast (not plastic) back then and could take a fair amount of abuse. In those pre-Castro days, perhaps the end of a Cuban cigar stuffed in the stack of a smoker locomotive would have added nice aroma to the train room?

The incense idea is good. Where did you get this info?

I was, in fact, thinking about posting the smoke question on OGR but could you imagine the fit Mr. Melvin would have even discussing pre-war trains & stuffing tobacco in them to make smoke? Lots of laughs!

Dave Vergun

[thor CNJ]

What if they filled the smokestack with reefer?

[Anonymous]

I think there was a train company called Thomas Trains (not Thomas the Tank Engine) way back before I was born that made civil war type engines and cars. I've seen articles and pictures somewhere showing them. I think they were made in the '40s ro '50s. I also think that Marx made a civil war or cowboy set of trains like you are looking for. I have seen a couple of Marx passenger cars that look right at my uncle's. He said he got them long ago at a train show with some other stuff when he bought a box of track.
The cars are yello and black and say St.Paul RR or something like that on them. I will ask him to show them to me when I see him in a couple of months.

[Anonymous]

Most of the Civil War toy trains began as a result of Disney's "Great Locomotive Chase" which came out in the late 1950s (Thomas may be earlier) but Lionel, AF & Marx all came about as a result of the Disney movie -- recently released on videotape for the first time for those who weren't 12 in the late 1950s -- the "Wonderful World of Disney" (or whatever it was called back then) did a TV show on the making of the movie that was just as interesting (it was filmed on the Talleula (Spelling?) Falls RR in North Georgia).
There is also a nice book "Civil War Railroads and Models" by Edwin P. Alexander, Fairfax press, NY copyright 1977 and 1989 reprint, though it is mostly about O scale models rather than toy trains.

[thor CNJ]

Marx made a Western style train, known by Marx collectors as the "William Crooks." There were wind-up, electric and battery versions. Some were 4-4-0, some were 0-4-0 Marx even had a playset combining its Western figures with the train.

[Anonymous]

I remember the playset fondly. [:)]