I recently purchased a 2023 engine and dummy engine - both run fine. However, I am new to trains and just beginning my collection. Regarding the 2023, how do you work the horn? I put in a new 'd' battery but not sure how this works. Also, when pulling several cars, the engine wheels seem to spin/slip.. maybe too maybe cars.. or is there something that i need to do to the wheels for better traction.
Thanks
ron
The 2023 has magnetraction, which depends on having rails made of steel. Ordinary tubular track and fastrack will work. Brass, nickel silver, and most stainless steel will not.
If you're already using steel track, there's not much more that can be done, short of powering the dummy unit. I have done this with mine, which can now pull a very long train; but it's not a simple fix.
Bob Nelson
I am running the 2023 a & b with 5 cars at it runs fine. I am using track.. not sure what type - but I steel.. from the hobby store for my 'o' guage trains. I have some steam engines from the late 40's and 50's.
So, I guess pulling 5 cars is ok... nothing more to do.. right?
Also - do you know how to operate the horn?
thanks
The old horns can be a problem. Make sure the battery has good contact. Turn it upside down and the horn should blow...IF it works. 2 things you can do to get better pulling power. Oil all the axles and put the dummy unit in front power unit facing the cars. they were nice engines but not too powerful with one motor.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
I doubt that oiling anything will increase the friction between the wheels and the rails.
but how does it work? the battery is in but what triggers the horn to blow?
Oiling the wheels on PW lionel cars makes a big difference in rolling ability. However Lionel recomenned using their gease instead. but oil works just fine.
There's a relay in the loco that responds to direct current, but not AC. The whistle control on your transformer puts an "overlay" of DC on the AC current which activates the relay in the engine; it closes, allowing the current from the battery to pass to the horn and power it.
As somebody said, these things (horns and whistles, but especially the horns) can be tricky. There are many points at which the process can go wrong. The circuitry in the transformer might not send the DC signal or the DC voltage might not be great enough to operate the relay. The current from the battery may or may not make its way through the contacts of the relay, the horn may or may not be adequately grounded, the battery might not make good contact at both ends, and/or the horn itself may or may not be OK. All these things are old, possibly dirty or corroded. Also, 1.5 volts from the battery is not much, so any "impediment" (dirt, corrosion, etc.) will prevent it from completing the circuit, and so the horn doesn't blow.
You have to go systematically through the various possibilities; eventually you'll figure out what's wrong, and then be able to fix it. People here will be glad to help walk you through the diagnostic steps.
Martin
Some very basic questions to start.
What transformer are you using? It does have a whistle control, right? Did you put a new, strong battery in the engine? If you turn the engine upside down, does the horn sound? When you push the whistle button (or move the lever) on the transformer, does anything at all happen? Clicking noise from the engine?
I have a lionel ZW transformer and it has whistler controller that works for my other trains..
I heard nothing when using it .. no click. nothing
I put in a brand new battery and heard no sounds.. the battery compartment is very clean - no rust..
I didn't realize that James was thinking about the axles of the cars.
I thought Martin's description of how the horn works pretty much covers it. But apparently something still hasn't gotten across; so I'll give it a try:
The transformer normally sends to the track an alternating voltage which has an average value of zero. If you have a transformer with a whistle control, it is designed to modify that alternating voltage so that it has an average value that is not zero, when you push or turn the whistle control. If you don't have a transformer with a whistle control, or a separate whistle control for use with your transformer, the horn isn't going to work.
Inside the locomotive is a relay. A relay is an electrically-operated electrical switch. The one in the locomotive is especially designed not to respond to the normal alternating voltage with a zero average value. But it does respond to the voltage with a non-zero average that the transformer's whistle control puts out. When that happens, a switch or pair of contacts on the relay close, to connect the D cell to the horn, which then makes a noise that's supposed to sound like a diesel locomotive's horn.
Ron, your transformer should have a button labeled "HORN/WHISTLE" or as Martin stated above, it may just say "WHISLTE." By simply pressing the button, the horn should activate. Of course "should" is the key word here as there are several things that can go wrong on these older horns. Some of the above posts describe various things to check. Good luck with your locomotive and welcome to the world of toy trains!
Bob, it looks like you entered your post as I was typing mine. Sorry for repeating some of your post. I really like your explanation far better than mine--alot more knowledge contained in your reply!
Karl
First of all,, thanks to all you guys for trying to help, I just got into trains and it was a little less expensive than buying a 1960's muscle car..
Anyway, I will take a look at the whistle over the weekend and hopefully will get it to work. I bought a 1948 train set from a guy at worked who received it from his dad when he was a kid.. Put a little money into it to get things working but really nice (726 locomotive) ... and I have really enjoyed the train.. Since then, I purchased a few things on ebay .. some cars and locomotives.. I like the post war ones the most.
So far, no major problem in ebay.. probably paid a little more on some and little less on others but having fun. I would like to get into repairing a little more.. but not sure how to start. For example, some cars maybe missing a shoe and I take to local hobby store to repair.. seems simple but there must be some type of tool for this.. do you guys know how to get that tool or see how to install a new shoe?
Anyway, thanks again to all and have aHappy New Year.
Ron
While speaking of the battery, using a rechargeable battery in this case is not recommended as rechargeables have a lower voltage rating. An alkaline battery will have around 1.58 volts brand new, while a rechargeable battery has only 1.28 volts fully charged and this will cause problems in some applications.
Lee F.
thanks...
to all.
I looked more closely at engine when running on track and using the whistle on transformer.. it does make a sound and I can see something ( i guess horn) spinning inside engine through windshield but it is not making the horn blow but the mechanics seem to be working... I will take the shell off but with this new news.. any additional advice?
Never mind my last email.. after taking off shell, the spinning thing was the motor.. but I removed the horn and then put back and got it to work. Maybe it had dust or corrosion blocking it from grounding to base... everything else looks good.. I put shell back on and put on track.. horn works with transformer.. very loud...
Thanks again for everyone's help..
Also - if you know of a tool or method for installing new shoes on cars. I would appreciate the info
The horn on my 2023 has quit functioning. Currently, the horn does not activate when the locomotive is turned upside down and does not activate when the whistle controller on the transformer is depressed. A sound is heard, but I don't see any movement of the bottom contact and do not see any broken connections or wiring shorts. The horn does activate when the horn relay contacts are manually contacted, however. The whistle controller on the transformer works fine on other locomotives. Any suggestions, and can I test the coil?
Thanks, swede
Very carefully clean the contacts with a fine emery board and use a fresh battery. Check for loose wires. There is an adjustment on the horn but it usually doesn't help as it is factory set.
Thank you for the really quick response. I have cleaned the contacts on the relay, carefully rechecked the wiring and even replaced the battery. I did not open the horn to clean the contacts there since the horn does work perfectly when the relay contacts are closed. I also checked for continuity through the coil.
swede
See here for the schematic for your locomotive. Put the loco in neutral and power it up, checking for AC track voltage on the horn relay coil wire and ground. Switch your meter to DC volts and press the horn button on the transformer. Check for about 1.5 volts DC on the coil contacts.
The relay coils rarely fail, usually the problem is wiring, or the movable contact does not move freely.
Larry
OK if the horn works Don't mess with it.
Sounds like the relay or it's contacts.
Thanks, Larry. Several of the grandkids are here for the weekend so I probably won't be able to check until they go home tomorrow. I'll be back in touch.
Ron, there are a couple ways to replace the sliding shoes. One is to have a Rivet press set and those are quite expensive with all the tools. The other is to buy some roll pin punch sets you can use with a hammer to flare the rivet. You can buy the shoes and rivets from WWW.ttender.com, Jeff Kane. It may be a bit of a learning curve to get them right. You will need a vise or something rigged up to support the rivet head from the bottom. Roger
Larry and Sir James, got the chance to take a look at the locomotive this AM. When getting ready to perform the test Larry outlined, I rechecked wiring and connections and with embarassment have to report I found a faulty connection with the relay ground wire. It was corrected and the horn functions as intended, with its usual crummy sound.
My thanks to both of you.
Swede,
It is good to hear that you found the problem and have your horn working.
One other quick test to insure the horn is getting full battery voltage. Check the horn directly with a fresh battery by putting the bottom of the battery on the metal of the horn itself and touching a wire from the top of the battery to the horn wire on the relay. If it sounds better than the horn being sounded normally, then the battery circuit needs cleaning.
You can sometimes get a stuck horn to work by using a 9 volt battery. Just don't leave the 9 V battery on very long as you may burn out the horn coil.
Thanks for the tips, Larry & Servoguy. I did use your tip the last time I had a horn issue, Larry, but have not resorted to trying the 9V tip, yet.
Everything is operating well, for the present!
Bob. I just got 2344p NY central-mint condition Engine. I am using the 275 watt ZW transformer. My Whistler units for my tender coal work fine. This particular locomotive with regards to the Whistler does not work. I heard it go on for less than a second and then I couldn't get it back using this transformer. Should I buy a separate switch for it or can you shed some light on what I could do?
thank you
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