Info on Lionel #1664 again

[Anonymous]

I need any info for a Lionel model 1664. It is a steam locomotive with a 2-4-2 arrangment. It has a Lionel Lines #1689T tender, red caboose #1682, Baby Ruth box car #1679, and a S.U.N.X oil tanker #1680. All cars are painted tin. Any info would help. Thanks Glen

[Algonquin]

Hi Glen,

Based on the information you provided so far, I believe your set was made by Lionel betwwen 1938 and 1942. The 1664 locomotive was paired up with the cars you have in many of the lower priced Lionel sets of that period. The 1664 was considered an 027 loco.

The more interesting part of what you have is probably the cars. These are the smaller sized (7-1/2") freight cars from the Lionel-Ives period. When the Ives company went bancrupt in 1928 Lionel and American Flyer controlled production of the Ives line of trains which were continued to be manufactured by the old Ives factory. In 1930 Lionel bought out American Flyers share and became sole owner of the Ives Line and Lionel moved production of the Ives trains to its own factory.

Lionel continued to produce an Ives line and catalog until 1933. Lionel continued to make the trains under a new low end line it called Lionel-Ives. The next year the line of trains was renamed Lionel Jr.

These cars (the Ives small series lithographed freight cars) were cataloged in the Ives catalogs in 1931 and 1932. In 1933 the cars were shown in the Lionel catalog as Lionel-Ives. In 1934 through 1936 they were cataloged as Lionel Jr. and from 1937 through 1942 they were cataloged as 027 cars.

The 1682 caboose in known to made in red with a brown roof in 1931 through 1934, solid red from 1933 through 1940 and dark brown in 1941 and 1942. Most cabooses were made with a single coupler. Ones with two couplers were generally sold with switcher engines.

The 1680 tank car was made in plain aluminum with no markings, aluminum with Sunoco and S.U.N.X. markings and in orange with Shell markings. Production from 1941 and 1942 had no handrails.

The 1679 Baby Ruth car came in yellow with a blue roof and in yellow with a maroon roof. Early versions had a picture of a candy car while later version had "Baby Ruth" in red letters and no candy bar.

The above information is from "Lionel A Collector's Guide and History to Lionel Trains, Volume I: Prewar O Gauge" by Tom McComas & James Tuohy, Copyright 1975.

I hope this iformation is helpful.

Regards,

Tim Pignatari

[tophertrainguy]

Hi,

   I also have a 1664 pre-war engine and am looking for the proper passenger set that would have been sold with it. If someone could help out with this information it would be greatly appreciated.Thanks

[galaxy]

Although you got an excellent response above, this might be better served/answered over on the 'Classic Toy Trains' forum, as the people there know more about lionel and its products/history/sources than we HO and N scalers tend to.

Just an idea.

[Train-O]

GPalfrey,

Your set may be similar to my father's set, give, or take the variations of the colors of the cars

The #1664E grey gun metal, die-cast metal engine and same color of the box type tin tender (Ours has no whistle), are a beautiful color.

The engine has a 'Columbia' type of wheel arrangement.

The cars have the 'Latch' type of couplers.

The motor is powerful and smooth, needing very little voltage to move at a slow crawl, like the engines of today.

I have not checked the price, because it is invaluable to me, having belonged to my father.

Good Luck,

Ralph 

[Train-O]

tophertrainguy,

This might be of some help in giving you information.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10147668

Good Luck,

Ralph

[dan63043]

I have the 2 1630 pullmans and 1 1631 observation passenger cars.

I was looking for the loco & tender that they came with and found

the prewar 1088 set came with the 1664, 1689w and my cars.

Hope this helps,

Dan

[dan63043]

Your freight cars were also in a 1073w set that was pulled by a 1668 loco and 1689t tender.