Williams Trainmaster (Crown Edition)

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Williams Trainmaster (Crown Edition)
Posted by NYCentralFan on Monday, December 27, 2010 1:14 PM

Happy Holidays everyone!

Well, I made quite well this year!

4 of the 8 reindeer passenger cars of the North Pole Central, and an early Williams NYC FM Trainmaster and 4 heavyweight cars.

As always, I do have a few questions.

Comparing my NIB NYC Trainmaster (with the chromed metal handrails) and my new (to me) "early" Trainmaster, it has plastic handrail stanchions and formed wire hand rail.

I've been looking at pictures, and does this make it a "Crown Edition"?

Does it have the same "6 amp" reverse board as the new one?

Does it have a horn / bell?

I have not run it extensively yet, as its really dry, and needs a good lube.  How do i tell if it has any of these when I open her up?

If I do decide to add more sound (Like the MRC AC sound board), is it easy?

Thanks, again!

-Mario

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Posted by phillyreading on Monday, December 27, 2010 3:10 PM

If it is a new Williams by Bachmann, it has the True Blast 2 sound unit installed in it, the sound is either a diesel horn or steam whistle that plays a grade crossing sequence of; two long, one short, one long. Unfortunately some of the electric engines, GG-1's and EP-5's have the diesel horn sound unit. Also the new Williams will have a 6 amp circuit board for the motors, starting in forward, then nuetral, reverse, nuetral, forward. Another thing about most electronic circuit boards that I have fopund to be true, if the unit sits more than 5 to 10 minuters it automatically recycles to forward, even if locked into nuetral!!

As far as the Crown Edition by Williams; it is discontiued!! The Crown Edition was a special or top of the line run by Williams in the mid 1980's. Also the Crown Edition came with a 'QSI industies' circuit board installed. The QSI sound unit has horn and bell features that can be accessed one at a time, some QSI diesels may have the diesel revving sounds or the sound of a diesel engine going faster or slowing down. I have a set of Santa Fe F-7's that are Crown Edition models.

If you want to find out more about Williams products go to www.bachmanntrains.com and go to ask the Bachmann topic and click on Williams trains.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by NYCentralFan on Monday, December 27, 2010 5:46 PM

Well, the difference between the two are:

The NIB FM has chromed metal-stamped handrails, metal Lionel-type horns and has the 6 Amp board with TB-II horn and bell.  Like this one...

The "old" one, which came with 4 Heavyweight passenger cars, has individual plastic handrail stanchions, and plastic horn.  That looks like this...

 

Which makes me think its an older Crown Edition from the 80's.  (Its even the same road number!).

So, how can I tell if this has a 6 Amp board and TB-II horn/bell?  What does it look like when I open it up?

Thanks,

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Monday, December 27, 2010 6:33 PM

At first Williams did plastic hand rails then they up graded to metal ones I have an engine which had the plastic but got broken PRR FM Trainmaster which I got metal replacement ones for it. If you look on Bachmann Website you will see that the newer ones have metal handrails. Also if you hit the horn and it does a set pattern I may have this wrong but its like 3 long 3 short then 3 long again ( might be the other way around short long short) thats the true blast 2 and you probably have a 6 amp reverse board. ) now if you can control the blows its an older engine with the other board and all in it.

Crown edition also had where you first took off it would say engine number what XXXX departing and it didn't match the engine number of most the engines they had one set number in the chip and all engines got that number I had this in my Shark set B&O ( I had A-B-B-A ) if i remember right it was in the B unit that had the sound chips.

I put tmcc in my PRR trainmaster so I can't look at the reverse unit in it and can't get to my Virginian to take a pic for you at the moment as its packed  so you can see what the reverse unit looks like or would take a pic for you. maybe someone else has one handy so you can see what it looks like in fact if you goto this heres what a reverse unit looks like this is on bachmann's site.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2765

and here's the true blast II unit

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2763

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 9:54 AM

The True Blast 2 sound system from Williams is a mid 1990's item, so it won't be in any Crown Edition engine from the factory. TB-2 can be installed but then you lose the other sound system(QSI) that came with the C. E.  The QSI system has the announcement of train # and leaving on track 10. If any older Williams engine other than C.E., it should have the horn only.

True Blast 2 has the grade crossing sequence of; two long, one short, one long. Also TB-2 has a bell feature, but can not be accessed when the horn is used or the bell when in use won't let the horn be used.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by NYCentralFan on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 11:25 AM

Are there any external clues that could fill me in on what to expect when I open her up.

No sound was working when I ran her dry.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:30 PM

For a while he made the trains with no sound just a reverse unit. My. PRR trainmaster was that way. I had to make a place for the speaker when I put tmcc in it.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:06 PM

And, for a while before that, they made the trains with no sound or reverse unit.

I have SD-45's, F-7's, & GG1's from the factory this way.  Non of these have traction tires, either(the GG-1's do have magne-traction, though).

Rob

Rob

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Posted by NYCentralFan on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 8:32 AM

Oh, its an early one.

I took the shell of and there was... 2 motors and a bridge rectifier.

A hand drawn arroy signified the forward direction.

Probably going to get a brand new one, swap shells, horns and handrails to match my other one, and dump it on ebay.

Oh well, so much for hoping.

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Posted by phillyreading on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:05 AM

ADCX Rob

And, for a while before that, they made the trains with no sound or reverse unit.

I have SD-45's, F-7's, & GG1's from the factory this way.  Non of these have traction tires, either(the GG-1's do have magne-traction, though).

Rob

There is the universal motor control board that Bachmann sells for the Williams engines, and you can buy the True Blast 2 horn and install it yourself. Look at the cost of a new engine and compare it to the parts you need to buy for the older engine before just saying that I will buy a new engine. Prices have gone up sharply for new Williams products.

So far with Williams engines that I have bought, all have reverse units, the really older ones don't have a horn or traction tires. The older SD-45's have all metal wheels, even the unflanged wheels were metal and would conduct electricity.

A somewhat newer SD-45 had plastic unflanged wheels with traction tires and it stopped on the accessory activation devices. I got some metal wheels from a power upgrade job I did to an F-7 diesel and cut the flange down on a grinding wheel. Since the modification to the wheels I have no problems with running the SD-45's over accessory devices such as the highway crossing light three wire lock-on.

Lee F.

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 4:48 PM

phillyreading
There is the universal motor control board that Bachmann sells for the Williams engines...

Lee F.

I just installed regular old-school Lionel e-units in all of them and wired the motors in series.  They all run great.

Rob

Rob

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:10 PM

[quote user="ADCX Rob"]

I just installed regular old-school Lionel e-units in all of them and wired the motors in series.  They all run great.

Rob

Rob,

As far I understand things with Williams, they use D.C. motors in their engines and not A.C. motors. So it surprises me that a post war E unit would work with the Williams engine. Did you add a diode or two along with the Lionel E unit?

I have installed a 6amp 50 volt bridge rectifier in two of my Williams engines that I wanted to permantly control the direction of travel.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:30 PM

I'll post pictures! 

The Lionel e-unit is a DPDT switch, with center off(neutral), so they work quite well with DC motors.

Rob

Rob

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:37 PM

I was under the impression that Lionel used A.C. motors in their post war trains.

Lee F.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:47 PM

Most postwar Lionel locomotives have universal motors, which will run on AC or DC.  To run permanent-magnet DC motors on AC requires a rectifier, which the Williams locomotive would have to already have if it was to work at all.  So a rectifier is needed but does not have to be added to run with a Lionel e-unit.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:56 PM

Bob N.

Thanks for the info on Lionel.

The Williams motors I have to agree with you about, as I thought they were D.C. can motors, so you need a rectifier. Just hope that Rob don't burn up a set of motors. Williams power upgrade kits are going for about $165.00 with shipping from Bachmann.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:58 PM

phillyreading
... Just hope that Rob don't burn up a set of motors...

"A" set?  I'm running about 6 sets of Williams motors with Lionel e-units.  Have been for over 20 years, and they are all fine. 

If you attempt this, be aware though ... they will not run on AC w/o rectifiers.

phillyreading
Williams power upgrade kits are going for about $165.00 with shipping from Bachmann.

Doesn't really make sense when you can buy an entire assembled loco from MicroMark for $139.00.

Rob

Rob

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Posted by rtraincollector on Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:03 PM

ADCX Rob

 phillyreading:
... Just hope that Rob don't burn up a set of motors...

"A" set?  I'm running about 6 sets of Williams motors with Lionel e-units.  Have been for over 20 years, and they are all fine. 

If you attempt this, be aware though ... they will not run on AC w/o rectifiers.

 phillyreading:
Williams power upgrade kits are going for about $165.00 with shipping from Bachmann.

 

Doesn't really make sense when you can buy an entire assembled loco from MicroMark for $139.00.

Rob

Or MA&PA junction offers the 6 wheel upgrade for $80.00 or the 4 wheel for $85 thats why you don't buy direct from bachmann

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, May 09, 2018 7:41 PM

[quote user="phillyreading"]

ADCX Rob

I just installed regular old-school Lionel e-units in all of them and wired the motors in series.  They all run great.

Rob

Rob,

As far I understand things with Williams, they use D.C. motors in their engines and not A.C. motors. So it surprises me that a post war E unit would work with the Williams engine. Did you add a diode or two along with the Lionel E unit?

Here is the Williams Diagram for two motors wired in parallel with an E-Unit.

DC Reverse With Lionel E-Unit

Rob

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