What's the difference between AF 302 and 302 AC???

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  • Member since
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  • From: Bucks County, Pa.
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What's the difference between AF 302 and 302 AC???
Posted by lioneltrains1 on Sunday, December 26, 2010 3:29 PM

Hi all-

Having been a Lionel guy since boyhood (me and Joshua Lionel Cohen use to pal around together...lol) I don't know a thing bout AF.  I quite often see 302 and 302 AC models on Ebay.

Could someone tell me or shoot me a link the difference between a 302 vs 302 AC.  Does AC stand for Gilbert, or voltage????

Is it the higher the number the better the engine?

 

Does anyone have a starter, working AF with smoke, whistle engine and tender for a reasonable price maybe 30.00 bucks or so?

 

Maybe with track?  I have a nice KW transformer with my Lionel set.

 

Thanks-Joseph

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:07 PM

American Flyer made a number of locomotives in two versions, one for DC only, the other for AC or DC but usually run on AC.  However the 302 did not to my knowledge have a DC-only version.  Perhaps the "AC" was appended to reassure a buyer who did not know this that the locomotive being sold would run on AC.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Timboy on Monday, December 27, 2010 6:41 AM

The difference is about $15 if both have the die-cast boiler.  The 302 should go for about $65, while the 302AC sould go for about $50, according to 2000 TM Price Guide.  This is assuming both pieces are in excellent condition.  I don't know what the Greenburg Price Guide says on the subject.  Train prices have fluctuated quite a bit since the 2000 TM Guide came out, so there could be either more, less or no difference at this point.  Best way to find out is to go to York and do some scouting.

Regards,

Timboy

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Posted by Major on Monday, December 27, 2010 6:56 AM

Lionelsoni is correct about the 302 / 302AC Atlantic locomotive. During the late 40's AC Gilbert put out some locomotives that were DC powered. Only the Northern and the 0-8-0 Switcher came in DC in addition to AC versions,  However all the locomotives in the line received the AC suffix denoting that they were AC powered while the two DC powered locomotives had the DC suffix added.

IMO the early style 302 / 302 AC with the four piece boiler is the most desirable as it has wire handrails and is more realistic that the later one piece diecast or plastic shells.  You should be able to find a decent one between $40 to $70 dollars.  300 Atlantics without the smoke and choo choo are a few dollars cheaper.  Again the early 300 Atlantics with the four piece boiler are the better looking ones.  Note: the first 300 Atlantics had a slighly shorter smoke box front than did the later ones, because the mold had to be made longer to accomodate the smoke unit used in the 302 Atlantics.

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Posted by lioneltrains1 on Monday, December 27, 2010 7:07 AM

  Thanks for your reply-Is there a link that would describe the features of each of the model numbers ie:  310 ac smoke no smoke etc.?  Did AF ever use smoke pills like Lionel did?  Or did they always have fluid smoke units?  Do all from 200 up have e-units?

Joseph

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Posted by Major on Monday, December 27, 2010 10:02 AM

Early Flyer Steam locomotive numbering  was as follows.  Note all use smoke fluid!

No Smoke or choo choo  ended in "0" such as 300 Atlantic, 310 K5,  320 Hudson.

Choo choo only  ended in "1" such as the 301 Atlantic,

Smoke and choo choo ended in "2" such as the 302 Atlantic, 312 K5, 322 Hudson,  332 Northern

Note: not all variations were produced for each type of locomotive. 1946 and 1947 models had smoke in the tender (SIT) Late 1947 on, had smoke in Boiler (SIB) The 302 Atlantic never had the smoke in tender feature.
When it was finally produced it was in the boiler.  The 301 Atlantic with choo choo only came out years later and was in the plastic boiler version. 

Later Flyer locomotives with a whistle ended in a different number either a 5 such as the 315 K5, 395 New Haven Pacific or 335 Northern during the link coupler era or a 6 such as the 316 K5, 326 Hudson, 336 Northern, 346 0-8-0 Switcher during the knuckle coupler era.  However there were exceptions to this and this numbering system changed during the 5 digit era starting late 1957.  Those locomotives with a whistle always had smoke and choo choo in the boiler.

I will let you know later today the reference books on this subject since I am not at home at this time.

 

 

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  • From: Bucks County, Pa.
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Posted by lioneltrains1 on Monday, December 27, 2010 12:32 PM

Thanks!  That is a wealth of information.  I knew there had to be a key.

Knowing Lionel all my life, this is the 1st time endeavoring on AF. 

I am looking for (using your key) a xx2 (smoke and chug- or better yet a xx5 or xx6 with the whistle.

If you know of anyone to sell me one (I have Paypal) cheap.  Not looking for pretty just really good operation.

I understand the AF have more smoke than Lionel engines!  I would need track (circle maybe inner 1/2 circle ) and 2 track clips.  I have a nice KW already.

I know this is asking for the Moon and stars, but I have a low budget, if they could cut me a break.  I would buy loyally  more at a later date.

Thanks-Joseph

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Posted by Major on Monday, December 27, 2010 2:21 PM

E-mail me at keyhole_corona@yahoo.com I may be able to assist you with some of your needs.

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Posted by AF53 on Monday, December 27, 2010 3:05 PM

The Major has a great deal of information and knowledge and has been a great deal of help to many of us. Along with his reference books, I came across this some time ago and you might find it helpful.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/locospecs.html

Good luck

Ray

Ray

Bayville, NJ

 

Life is what happens to you
While you're busy making other plans - John Lennon

  • Member since
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Posted by lioneltrains1 on Monday, December 27, 2010 6:33 PM

I emailed you

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