Lionel 675 Locomotive - Drive Wheels

[Daron_PRR_K4]

Hello

I hope this type of question hasn't been asked before, I looked but I didn't find much.

Two years ago I got off ebay a 675.  What I ended up getting was an abomination to any Lionel loco-- and not what was in the picture.  I did try to go after the guy, but foolishly I didn't try that hard, and I kept it.

Anyways, I thought I could refurb it.  The biggest issue was the 6 driver wheels, all of them wobbled.  Without consulting anybody, I disassembled it, removed the wheels (mistake), pulled out the bent axles.  I thought I could simply order replacement wheels/axles for it, and clean the motor up, replace the bushings, etc.

It never occured to me-- how do I reinstall the driver wheels?  I get they need to be pressed on, but I saw the tools were rather expensive.  Then I had a kid, and the 675 went in a box in the shelf.

Pulled it out, and wanted to pick up where I left off.  I had ordered and received new baldwin type drivers, axles (found out now incorrect part)-- thought maybe I should have somebody do it, I called up a local shop and I got snapped at for what a problem it is to get the wheels back on, wanted at least 50$ to do it (assuming I bring it in with the... degree's set on the axles?)

I get they have to lined up correctly on both sides, and properly so the linkage operates properly.

Am I that screwed?  Am I better off trying to sell the motor and the wheels, then buy a new motor w/ wheels attached?

Or is there a way for me to allign the wheels, press the on the axles, etc.  How would I do that?

I am mechanically inclined so I don't mind some work, but if somebody could help me...

In addition I don't know what the correct part number would be for the axles.  It is a 47-49 era, w/o magnetraction.

Thanks in advance!

[lionelsoni]

You have an uphill battle ahead.  But don't fall for the "quartering" myth.  While it is true that prototype and most model steam locomotives have their wheels 90 degrees apart from one side to the other, this is not necessary for models; and many of them are only approximately at 90 degrees.  The real requirement is that the crank angle difference has to be the same for all driver axles, which is a hard enough requirement to meet.  (The Lionel Generals are a good example--their drivers are aligned so that the crossheads can serve to drive the smoke pump, inside the boiler.)  Your drivers are probably already splined internally from their previous axles.  There is a good chance that you can get them exactly right by exploiting those splines.

I use a large vise to press wheels onto their axles.  I remove the jaw liners and replace the screws that held them with, on one side, a hex-head screw for pushing on the hub of a wheel and, on the other side, a headless screw with its end turned down to slightly less than the axle diameter.  This way I can push each wheel to where I want it on the axle without moving the opposite wheel.

[Daron_PRR_K4]

lionelsoni

many of them are only approximately at 90 degrees.  The real requirement is that the crank angle difference has to be the same for all driver axles, which is a hard enough requirement to meet. ... There is a good chance that you can get them exactly right by exploiting those splines.

I

What is the crank angle difference between the drivers on one side vs. the other?

Also, could you keep the position of those drivers (on the same side) in line by attaching the connecting rod in some fashion, without interfering the press on process?

Thanks!

Daron Fine

[arkady]

Quartered or not quartered, replacing wheels and axles for a steam locomotive can be a challenge.  You can find the part numbers by checking the diagrams available online at Olsen Trains:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//default.htm

Quartering jigs are available, from a company called Toy Train Restoration Products. I've never used any of them, so I can't comment one way or another on their products:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-TOOLS-STANDARD-GAUGE-WHEEL-INSTALLATION-TOOL-/230557623208

[servoguy]

If it were my loco, I would merely grab the wheels with a pair of pliers and bend the axles until the wheels didn't wobble.  You are not going to break the wheels doing this.  This is far easier than trying to replace the wheels and axles.  If the old wheels are tight on the axles, I would stick the whole thing back together and get busy with the pliers.  The axles bend very easily.

BB

[lionelsoni]

For almost all two-cylinder prototype locomotives, the right side leads the left side by 90 degrees when running forward.  The PRR, contrary as always, used a left-side lead.  Strangely, Lionel built their 773 Hudsons with left-side lead, despite their being pointedly based on NYC prototypes.

However, except for models that actually turn some of the drivers through the side rods, you can get away with any angle, since you can't see both sides at the same time!  Nevertheless, I have "corrected" one of my 773s to right-side lead.

A reasonable procedure to attempt would be to press on all the geared wheels, install the reduction gears, the axles, and the side rod for those wheels.  Then press on the other wheels with their side rod attached.  The side rods will not provide a very precise alignment; but, with any luck, the original wheels will find their proper orientation, to the nearest spline tooth, as you start to press them on.

[TRAINCAT]

Something not mentioned here is the axle bearings. A lot of the 675/2025 axle bearings are worn out and egg shaped. The wheels will hobble. It is near impossble to rip apart the two frame sides and install new bearings and get it back together. I asked several well known repairmen to do this once and none of them would tackle it saying it would not be cost effective. As far as getting the wheels back on and quartered correctly I would ask around until you find a guy who has a press and the right wheel cups. I let someone press wheels back on two times with just a vice and both times he ruined my engine. These 675 motors pop up on Ebay every day for sale but you do not know if your getting worn out bearings or bent axles again. The sellers tell you that it looks ok to them but will not accept returns.

Roger

[LL675]

I have had the drivers off my 675 and other steamers a few times. I just use a small block of wood, and a small hammer. take your time, line one side up, and try the linkage for binding.then do your other side. many say the 675 is a hard engine to work on. My 675 was the first engine i worked on, and if I can do it, so can you. But, if you'd rather, look for another motor. I just picked up a 675 type motor, with all the drivers for under $30.

[Daron_PRR_K4]

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Well the thing is I have the drivers pulled.  The old ones were all torn up, and the axles were bent.  The drivers are baldwin nickel rimmed type, which I want to look good. So I ordered a new set to install.

Should I ebay the new baldwin drivers, and get a motor assembly instead?

These new drivers are soooo nice though!

Thoughts?

Thanks again!

[LL675]

if you're thinking about getting another motor with drivers, check on ebay for what they're going for.I lucked out withthe one I got. I've seen some start out at $60. This price usually gets a motor with the e unit, all ready to swap in.

[TRAINCAT]

It is a crap shoot on Ebay. You may get one worse than what you had. Ask lots of questions. Jeff Kane at www.ttender.con may still have new assy's.

Roger