Done with new Lionel digital F3's - I want Postwar!!!

[jmpmap]

I made the total switch to command when it became available and have enjoyed it.
I am now building my second command layout. However, there is nothing like running a Postwar train and the smell of the layout. You do not get that with the new stuff.

[SPFan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3railguy

Postwar F-3's are hard to beat. They are like an old pickup truck with a manual tranny, steering, and brakes. Reliable and cheap and easy to service.

With Williams you get the automatic tranny. It helps if the shadetree mechanic has the book but still repairable at home.

Pete

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3railguy

Postwar F-3's are hard to beat. They are like an old pickup truck with a manual tranny, steering, and brakes. Reliable and cheap and easy to service. The new engines are great until they break down and you spend half the cost of the engine fixing it. The sounds do get old after awhile and. criuse control takes away half the fun.

Couldn't agree more 3rail.

[brianel027]

Notch 8, you and I have a lot in common in our thinking!

About a year ago I ran into an old train dealer buddy of mine. We had always had an on-going argument over the technology end of the hobby. He'd say he couldn't sell a train engine unless it was fully-loaded with all the features. I'd argue back that the expensive technology keeps young folks with kids and budget operators from being in the hobby.

So imagine my surprise when this time he told me I was right! We got to chatting about the state of the hobby and retailing and he said there was very little affordable quality product for the newcomers. He talked of all the problems with the Lionel wall pack and controller transformer... folks thought they were getting Lionel quality - and then were mad at him instead of Lionel. We talked about the poor quality of the low end Lionel RS3. Then we got to talking about Williams. He said he was going to have to look into stocking some of their stuff. I told him about another dealer I know who took a chance and stocked a couple of Williams locos... they weren't on the shelf long enough to collect dust.

Again, it's a big world and it's great there are so many options for modelers today. As seen on the train forums, there are many operators who like the hi-tech trains and wouldn't go back to conventional trains. I also suspect these are folks who are not working 2 low paying jobs just to simply make ends meet... they not only have the money to spend on the trains, but the free time to talk about them on the train forums.

But part of this train hobby is nostalgia. Even Lionel capitalizes on this (listen to their phone system tape recorded messages when you get put on hold). Mention "Lionel" to the novice and they think of the qualities that made Lionel great in the past... rugged, die-cast, reliable, etc.

We all know that much of the hi-tech stuff in our everyday lives doesn't always work: cell phones, computers, CD and DVD players, electronic phone answering machines, etc. But this stuff is more "necessary" than model trains. Plus when your electronic phone goes on the skids, you just drop $10-$15 and buy a new one. Too bad the same can't be said for some of the trains made today.

There was also an item on the news that the majority of people who have found work in the past year, have accepted jobs that pay nearly half of what they previously made. Now, I'm not a NASA engineer, but it doesn't take too much to figure out that there isn't going to be a lot of growth in the hobby with $500+ train engines when folks aren't making the money they used to make.

And if this train stuff was selling as well as expected (both high and low end), I don't believe we'd be seeing the 40-60% off blowout prices on trains from some of the bigger mailorder places (who normally have better discount prices to begin with).

[Anonymous]

Ah yes.. Another Williams refrence. I wonder if any of the top brass at Lionel or MTH looks at this forum and actually pays attention to what is posted? A few years ago, I purchased my first TMCC locomotive. I now own eight of them
(including two cusom jobs). In reality the only time all of the TMCC get used is when I get to show my trains off to someone who is visiting. Otherwise, the features are wasted. I like simplicity. I can use my imagination. My kids use their imagintion. Plus the fact that a non TMCC locomotive costs up to $150 less than one equipped. I can take this extra money and buy the rolling stock to follow.

I have had it too with the DCS, TMCC battle. Non standardization hurts the hobby big time. To Mike Wolf: Your DCS came out way to late. In typical MTH style your product was continually delayed. As a result, I bought products that were compatable with your competition. Nice product, way too much, not on time, take your DCS product line and stick it!

I want simplicity, I want dependability. I want affordability. How about just having a good horn and bell in your model? I find it interesting that 50+ year old technology can still compete and be prefered.

[SPFan]

Also consider the new Williams Golden Memories F-3s. They might not be as detailed as the latest Lionel offering but they are more detailed than the Post War units. The Williams catalog does not depict the detail but CTT has done an article on them. I expect to receive my CP set today!!!

Pete

[MartyE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jerrylovestrains

Could it be possible to wire a layout to be conventional and command?

Yep...pull the plug on the command base.

[Anonymous]

Could it be possible to wire a layout to be conventional and command?

[brianel027]

I like what John Long said in his his first paragraph!

The new technology is wonderful in that there are so many new possibilities. And the paint jobs and graphics today are a big improvement over what was done years ago. BUT (speaking for myself) I have more than enough frustration in my everyday life to be seeking more. As my signature quote says " I run trains for fun, not frustration."

In other words, what is the point of having all this wonderful technology if it doesn't work, or it costs a lot to get it fixed. Or worse yet, it gets fixed free under warranty, but you have to live without the item for another 6 months. Then it gets fixed, but still doesn't work!

I know there are some who have never had serious problems with their "digital" trains. But there are unfortunately many who have. And over the years as I have read their postings, I have no regrets over liking the less complicated trains, that I can usually fix myself. Sure, there are elements I do like about the technology... solid state e-units are usually an improvement; I also really like the infrared train detectors.

So FEClionel, nothing odd about what you are doing. There will always be those who like the technology and the control. But there also seems to be a growing number of guys who are annoyed with the high prices and poor reliability of the high-tech stuff and are going back to the tried and true type of trains. Either way, hi-tech or low-tech, it's whatever makes you happy - because the hobby is suppose to ultimately be about "fun."

[3railguy]

Postwar F-3's are hard to beat. They are like an old pickup truck with a manual tranny, steering, and brakes. Reliable and cheap and easy to service. The new engines are great until they break down and you spend half the cost of the engine fixing it. The sounds do get old after awhile and. criuse control takes away half the fun.

The gear growl and bicycle horn in postwar sounds sweet. Nothing beats the smell of ionized air and hot grease that old field wound motors make.

Finding postwar Santa-Fe's and Texas specials for the price of your Wabash repros shouldn't be tough. Southerns and WP's are on the pricey side. Especially WP's with crisp silver paint and complete origional nose decals.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you are the only train guy who has gone back to the "good old days". Too much technology is not always a good thing.

[FEClionel]

After playing with my new Wabash F3 set I have decided that TMCC is not for me. I'd rather play with the trains via my Dad's 1044 and ZW - plus railsounds are cool for a while but I like the old school style better. So I wanna trade my ran once Wabash AB F3 for a set of postwar F3's. You all probably think I'm crazy and I'm sure the guys at Lionel and MTH think it would be strange for a 24 year old guy to want to revert back to non-digital train technology. Don't get me wrong my postwar celebration series rolling stock is awesome because it fills in items I can't find or can't afford but the new digital stuff is not fo me. Anyone who wants to trade any Postwar F3's either Santa Fe, Texas Special, Southern or Western Pacific let me know! - Postwar power and postwar inspired/copied rolling stock - yeah that works for me!