All this to me sounds like lubrication problems. I suggest that you lube the loco with 5W-20 motor oil. Lube all the axles, gears, the shafts of the can motor, the shafts that the idler gears run on, etc. Lube the axles of the front and rear truck. When the loco stops, see if the wheels turn freely. If you hear any chatter or unusual noise, you probably still need to lube something.
I made some measurements recently on a few engines. A 2353 dual motor diesel draws 2 amps. A 736 steamer draws 2 amps. A MTH 2-8-8-2 draws 1.2 amps. None of these current levels should cause any stress on any of the transformers mentioned. All of these engines run very easily. The smokers were not working when I made these tests.
Update.
I called Lionel and spoke with Ana in customer service. Real nice person. She said, if I can find my receipt, they would fix it under warranty. Or I could get it fixed locally under warranty with the receipt.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find it. But I did go to the other store in town. They'll fix it. He's pretty busy, because he is the best of the two here. He could tell we run it a lot and suggested giving it breaks every half hour to 45 minutes. Starter sets aren't designed to be run hours and hours at a time.
It's quite a store too. He had a lot of trians, sets and parts. While I was there I decided to pick up a second Polar Express to alternate, so I can run them as=long as I want. The unit on this seems stronger out of thebox than the other one and the smoke is incredible. Maybe improvements were made over a couple years.
When I get the old one back I'll post here so anyone else with the same issue can get their's fixed.
Thanks for the suggestion. I know absolutely nothing about how it works and what wires to look for or what a pick up is. But, I will suggest this to whoever fixes it.
I talked to the owner of the store and told him it came to a stop Sunday night and based on his earlier thoughts, it sounded like the controlt board. He said, he needs to have it stop for him befor he can figure it out. I thought that was the whole point of me taking it home? Now I'm confused. He said, it could be the the reverse unit. Is this the same thing as the control board. But then he still said, it could be the motor.
He will replace whatever part I want him too, but couldn't guarantee that that is it. Is there someway to diagnose what is going on with it and get it fixed? I'm going to call Lionel today too and get their thoughts. And there are a couple other train stores in town I may call too. I just want a train that will run.
Impossible to say if it'll fix the smoke issue, but clearly if the board is bad, the smoke unit power draw could be a problem.
Personally, I still think that you should look very closely at the wiring from the pickups and to the motors. The fact that the extra power draw of the smoke unit affects things is a clue here.
Thanks. I did that and it ran for about two hours, then stopped.
I took it to the Switch Stand and talked with the owner. He ran it on his track for a bit and it worked fine. He checked the engine and said, It's running normal and not drawing extra power.
He said, it could be one of three things:
1. The transformer - if it's too hot to touch after the train stops, it's the culprit.
2. The engine - if the bottom of the train is too hot to touch, it's the culprit.
3. The circuit board - if both of the above are cool, it's the culprit.
He said to bring it home and run it again until it stops. I ran it last night for three hours straight. No problems. Then tonight it ran for an hour, then stopped. Both transformer and engine were barely warm. This suggests, based on his comments, the circuit board is bad.
With this, I'll be getting that replaced. Doean anyone know, if this will also fix the smoke issue of needing to be off?
I've heard a number of complaints about the Polar Express smoke unit, you guys seem to be adding to the chorus here.
Try running it with the smoke turned off.
Rob
Hi - I'm new and just found this forum after googling my problem I'm having with mine.
I bought a Polar Express at a train show this past spring and ran it for the first time in October. And then quite a bit from Thanksgiving to now (it's still up and going around the Christmas tree). I have a 72" circle (we bought extra track). I was running great this whole time. I cleaned the track and wheels once a week. Now it will run for about 15 minutes like yours and then slow down to a crawl and then stop.
I will turn it off and on. Sometimes it begins running in reverse and it's not even set to that. Some times it won't run at all. And other times it will start up. I'll let it sit for a while and begin the process all over again.
I was beginning to think the transformer was gettiing fussy and tired. Or maybe it's the engine now? I'm going to call the store in here in town and get his thoughts too. He already fixed the arm on the engine linkage for us. A little piece broke and he ordered a new arm. It was more decorative than functional.
I definitely want to get it resolved before I put it away, so it will be working again next year.
I know this is an older thread, but I'm having a similar problem with my Polar Express locomotive. When running with a CW-80, it exhibits similar behavior but usually only takes 15-20 minutes to start slowing down. If I don't increase the power, it will eventually stall in a curve. The really weird part is that after running at the increased setting for a while, it will suddenly speed up on its own and I'll have to reduce the power back to where it was originally. The problem only seems to appear when the smoke unit is on, BUT the smoke unit is wired to track power and not through the reverse board. I also notice that when the locomotive does this, the boiler in the area of the sand dome is very warm. The reverse board and motor are located in this area.
I don't think the transformer is the problem, as it runs everything else (including dual-motor Williams diesels) without issue. Bad smoke unit maybe? I just can't figure this one out...
Maybe you should take a volt meter and hold the leads on the transformer terminals. Watch the reading on it to see if it starts out normal ( probably around 10-15 volts) and then drops off as the train gets slower. That would tell you the engine itself is ok and the trouble is in the transformer.
Williamsdad, I am no authority on the newer Lionel CW 80 transformer since I use 1950's vintage Lionel 1033's which I think is the best, most versatile transformer that has EVER been made for the money.
BUT I am an authority on smaller traditionally sized cheaper low end locomotives since that is all that I run. All these locomotives including yours typically use a Mabuchi DC can motor. Normally they are reliable for what they are. But they are not precision motors. So read on.
Over a year ago I set about to build a motor chassis for a RMT Beep shell. It took me forever only because I work so much and seem to have less time that ever (I suppose these days I'm lucky though to have a job). I ordered some new production Mabuchi motors from a Lionel parts dealer. I noticed these new motors ran incredibly hot... I've never had that problem before with any loco. And I have many.
I tried all the motors I ordered and they were all the same way... all got very hot very quickly with little or no load on the motors. So as a crap shoot, I sprayed the inside of the motors with a plastic safe electronic tuner wash, like what is availble from Radio Shack. There are vents on the side of the can motor that allowed me to wiggle in the extended spray nozzle. I let that spray wash dry, and then lubed both ends on the armature with a model train Moly lube made by Hob-E-Lube. And the problem was gone.
My rebuilt BEEP runs like a champ, pulling a train it never could pull out of the box and the motor doesn't get hot as it did at the very beginning.
Again, I cannot comment on the CW 80. But I have many smaller DC can motored locos. Though as one more thought, I do not have one of the newer Lionel 0-8-0 steamers that has replaced the typical 4-4-2 steamers in many Lionel starter sets. I've never had any real trouble with the 4-4-2's other that replacing a smoke unit (I do all my own repairs) after 15 years of use... reasonable and to be expected.
But I have read of some troubles with the new 0-8-0's getting hot because some think of the smaller more crammed space inside the loco for the electronics and the motor. Or could be, some defect in the motors as I seemed to experience.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
If it's not hot enough to damage motor windings or melt plastic parts, and no further voltage adjustment is needed after it warms up, there is no need to stop running.
Bob Nelson
I guess you missed or missread my first post. I told you at the top of the page to give it cool down time.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
That makes sense.... I didnt think anything was wrong with the engines...thanks for the input...I tried to tell this to the guy at the hobby store and he is like really? I dont think he believed it...owell....again thanks for the input.
--Black Diamond-- One thing about a train, it doesnt matter where it's going, You just have to decide to get on... Woo Wooo.....
The transformer and the motor get warmer as they run. Higher temperature increases the resistance of the wiring in both of them, reducing the current. You then turn up the voltage to compensate for the increased voltage loss in the increased resistance and restore the current to its original value.
This heating is probably normal, especially if it takes a while to develop. In any case, the transformer's overcurrent protection should take care of any dangerous current. Note that, after you adjust the transformer's voltage upward, you are not increasing the current above what it was originally, just bringing it back up to where it was before.
I am having the same problem with The New York Central Flyer Freight Set. Using the CW-80 with the original track that came with the set, minus two straight pieces (makes the track a little smaller then the original size that came with the set). I have had this happen with other engines also...i dont knwo what happens here...i dont think anything is wrong with the engines...of course i dont know...just seems after about a hour or so...it slows to a crawl with out touching the throttle...running at about 35 to 40 percent throttle.
Can someone else running a cw80 try this and see what happens? Set it about a moderate pace...and let it run...and see if it slows to a crawl after about a hour to a hour and a half....i think Sir James is right....its caused from heat build up...but if you throttle down and re throttle right away off it goes again with no problems....so i dont know...
I would suggest either trying to borrow a different transformer or taking the locomotive to a local hobby shop to see if you can reproduce the problem. I had a prewar locomotive do the same thing and the problem turned out to be the 1033 I was using had a bad secondary winding.
It is a Lionel locomotive with a CW-80 transformer. I don't know the number off the engine right now, but will look at it tonight. It is the engine that comes with the Pennsylvania Flyer Freight Train sets (the set is part 6-30089 or something similar).
I need more info to trouble shoot your problem correctly; what brand of train are you using and the number from the engine. But here is a very common problem with Williams engines.
I was on the Williams by Bachmann site and they are having problems when people use a small watt (less than 70 watts) transformer with their newer engines. You will need to step up to an 80 to 100 watt transformer, Atlas or MTH works well with Williams. Another thing to consider, the Lionel CW-80 transformer will not work with a lot of newer Williams engines because of having a chopped wave output.
Lee F.
A pennsy flyer engine has a DC motor and cannot be serviced in any way other than a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. A small drop of oil on the axles will help as well.
I mean the roller looking things on the bottom of the train. I cleaned those using some tuner cleaner from Radio Shack. I also cleaned the track itself. I did not take the whole engine apart to clean anything else. Frankly, I'm not sure how to do that and the electric motor seems to be a enclosed unit, although maybe I just don't know how to open it. As it slows down, it does make any squealing noise. It just starts to struggle like it does not have enough power. If anything, there is just a slight buzzing sound.
When you say you tried cleaning the engine contacts what exactly do you mean? Can we assume there is no old, dried up grease stopping up the works? Have you removed the brushes and cleaned the armature face and commutator segment grooves? Are the brush springs in good shape? Have you oiled the armatur shaft ends? Is there a loud squealing noise when it slows down?
Roger
If it only runs a few minutes then it needs a checkup. This newer stuff has electronics in them including the transformer. Try giving it some cool down time between runs.
A bit of a train newbie. My son has a O-gauge Pennsylvania Flyer that is 3 years old. We set it up each year at Christmas. This year, it will run around the track at almost full speed for a few minutes before it gradually starts to slow down until it can't make it around the track anymore. If I let it "rest" for a minute or two, I can repeat that process. I've never experienced this "tiring out" of the train in the past, and my dad's 65 year old Lionel train does not have any similar problems.
I've tried cleaning the engine contacts, and then track...and took a LOT of black grime off of both. But that only helped a little. Is something wrong with the engine that is causing it to slow down like that?
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