MTH \ Proto One \ Coversion to Conventional

[SPMan]

I had a proto 1 mth f unit converted to conventional.  A local hobby shop did the work by removing the failed proto 1 boards and installing a Dallee electronic reverse unit for $65.  Engine runs fine now and I still have a mars, cab and number light boards but no headlight.  As soon as I figure out how to get that back on I'll be happy.  Also I have no horn or bell but not a problem for me.  The alternative was to upgrade to proto 2 which was way too much money and besides proto 2 upgrade kits are not presently available from MTH due to component parts shortage anyway or lastly, replace old proto 1 boards for around $200.

Ray

[phillyreading]

I am not sure of all the factors, like if MTH engines have DC motors or not, but if they do use DC motors the electronic reverse board from Williams should work for conventional running.

I know that Williams engines have DC can motors in them. The Williams True Blast 2 horn (a separate sale item) works directly from track power of an AC transformer, don't use with DC power as the horn or bell won't quit until it burns out.

Lee F.

[rtraincollector]

Not sure if I completely understand where you were coming from above but I have seen the reverse unit from williams as low as $30.00 and I think some of the electronic E-units from lionel are about that or less and the idea you have of the stand alone sound unit is a good way to go also. found one electronic e-unit on www.ttender.com $13.50 ( 8214-51) plus shipping not sure if it would work but if you want conventional that may be it. anyway just an idea

[wallyworld]

lionelsoni

I have converted a couple of Rail King locomotives to use e-units.

Use a 4-ampere or larger bridge rectifier, like this one from Radio Shack:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062580&filterName=Type&filterValue=Rectifiers  Connect the ~ (middle) terminals to the locomotive frame or something connected to the wheels and to the pickup.

Find space for the e-unit.  If you can't mount it vertically, there is a type (671-50 or 726-51) with a spring, meant for horizontal installation.  American Flyer reversing units are another resource, since they generally are mounted horizontally.

A Lionel e-unit has 5 electrical connections, which on later models can be distinguished by the colors of the leads.  The e-unit frame is common and, on conventional locomotives, connects to the locomotive frame through its mounting.  For a conversion of a DC-motored locomotive, it should not be connected to the locomotive frame, but rather to one of the + or - terminals of the rectifier.  The red wire would have been connected to the pickup; but now connect it instead to the - or + terminal of the rectifier, whichever one you didn't connect the e-unit frame to.  The green wire would have been connected to the motor field winding; but now connect it to whatever you connected the e-unit frame to.

This leaves the blue and yellow wires (sometimes two yellows--no blue).  Connect them to the motor.  If you have two motors, you have a choice of parallel connection, that is, both wires to each motor, or, for slower operation, series connection, that is, one e-unit wire to one terminal of one motor, the other e-unit wire to one terminal of the other motor, and another wire to connect the remaining terminals of the motors together.

Chances are that you will not be able to use the switch that is part of the e-unit.  You can install a small SPST switch wherever is convenient and use that instead.

Thank you, this seems like the way to go. Much Thanks

[wallyworld]

rtraincollector

I'm guessing here but how about a Williams reverse unit if you just want to goto conventional you could tear out all the present electronics and just hook to the motor(s) and if you want horn/bell get there true-blast II ( I'm not fond of it as it does a set horn/whistle for a crossing and you can either do that or the bells not both at the same time)

for that matter you could get a Lionel electronic E-unit to do the same and add train sounds or signal sounds ( horn and Bell) I would think as never owning a MTH but they are dc motors in them right?

just an idea

Well, when I priced the cost of this original equipment which was pricey for me and then just add the additional cost of an Proto 2 upgrade, about to be Version 3, it just didn't make sense to me as a matter of choice, so I thought of the two loops on the layout devoted to Marx, and the two to K-line and MTH, which combined makes quite a racket anyway, (which I enjoy) and I really don't do switching, so why bother with the "Cadillac version " ( for me) when I just run them in loops? I just bought a stand alone MRC sound unit for about $35.00 so I can toot and ring bells, etc from time to time..and the stationary speakers will be mounted with a baffle under the table. I mix tinplate and modern pretty freely. That's the background story and the quest to keep the Proto Ones "simple."

[lionelsoni]

I have converted a couple of Rail King locomotives to use e-units.

Use a 4-ampere or larger bridge rectifier, like this one from Radio Shack:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062580&filterName=Type&filterValue=Rectifiers  Connect the ~ (middle) terminals to the locomotive frame or something connected to the wheels and to the pickup.

Find space for the e-unit.  If you can't mount it vertically, there is a type (671-50 or 726-51) with a spring, meant for horizontal installation.  American Flyer reversing units are another resource, since they generally are mounted horizontally.

A Lionel e-unit has 5 electrical connections, which on later models can be distinguished by the colors of the leads.  The e-unit frame is common and, on conventional locomotives, connects to the locomotive frame through its mounting.  For a conversion of a DC-motored locomotive, it should not be connected to the locomotive frame, but rather to one of the + or - terminals of the rectifier.  The red wire would have been connected to the pickup; but now connect it instead to the - or + terminal of the rectifier, whichever one you didn't connect the e-unit frame to.  The green wire would have been connected to the motor field winding; but now connect it to whatever you connected the e-unit frame to.

This leaves the blue and yellow wires (sometimes two yellows--no blue).  Connect them to the motor.  If you have two motors, you have a choice of parallel connection, that is, both wires to each motor, or, for slower operation, series connection, that is, one e-unit wire to one terminal of one motor, the other e-unit wire to one terminal of the other motor, and another wire to connect the remaining terminals of the motors together.

Chances are that you will not be able to use the switch that is part of the e-unit.  You can install a small SPST switch wherever is convenient and use that instead.

[rtraincollector]

I'm guessing here but how about a Williams reverse unit if you just want to goto conventional you could tear out all the present electronics and just hook to the motor(s) and if you want horn/bell get there true-blast II ( I'm not fond of it as it does a set horn/whistle for a crossing and you can either do that or the bells not both at the same time)

for that matter you could get a Lionel electronic E-unit to do the same and add train sounds or signal sounds ( horn and Bell) I would think as never owning a MTH but they are dc motors in them right?

just an idea

[wallyworld]

ChiefEagles

Maybe Bob Nelson can help on this one.  I will email him and let him give advice.  I convert mine to TMCC with Railsounds by using Electric RR kits.  Easy to install and work great.

Does Electric RR have a website to visit?

[ChiefEagles]

Maybe Bob Nelson can help on this one.  I will email him and let him give advice.  I convert mine to TMCC with Railsounds by using Electric RR kits.  Easy to install and work great.

[wallyworld]

I appreciate the information but I do want to convert them to a basic conventional mode. The simpler, the better. Someone elsewhere suggested a bridge rectifier from radio shack that costs a couple of bucks, but this only allows one direction. Has anyone installed the Dallee conversion unit?

[DMUinCT]

wallyworld

Has anyone done this successfully and if so, how? I have a GG1 and a GP7 that expired. Any insights will be appreciated. I took a look at the wiring harnesses and they look ( at least to me) ..well...formidable.

You can bring your Proto One (PS1) back to life with a "reset chip" from MTH or your local dealer plus a new, rechargable battery or BCR battery replacement.  

 MTH markets a ProtoSound 2 (PS2) upgrade kit fro PS1 locomotives.

You might want to go "on line" to the MTH Web site, lookup the Manual for the PS2 Upgrade Kit, the download (in Adobe) is free.   It shows the wiring including diagrams.

[wallyworld]

Has anyone done this successfully and if so, how? I have a GG1 and a GP7 that expired. Any insights will be appreciated. I took a look at the wiring harnesses and they look ( at least to me) ..well...formidable.