You are using small transformers so you will not have issues with a 5906, however if your still in doubt consider an upgrade to a Lionel CW-80 or a MTH Z1000, both have the bell/whistle buttons built in. The Z1000 is considered better at 100 watts but either will run a small layout. Jim
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Well, gentlemen, I appreciate and value both perspectives. There's always something to be said for operating experience, and at the same time the numbers are irrefutable. After all the opinions and data are in I suppose what it comes to is weighing all the information and balancing it against your risk tolerance and comfort level. While that might make some folks cringe, others can sleep with it just fine. Thanks for your help.
Well, I appreciate and value both perspectives, gentlemen. There's certainly something to be said for operating experience, and at the same time the technical analysis is irrefutable. After being armed with all this information, I suppose when we get into the train room we're looking at each individual's risk/comfort level for final implementation. Thanks very much for your help.
For some reason Bob never agrees with me. So all I can tell you is the current layout was built in 1980 and that 5906s were added shortly after they became available. I often run F3s with 4 motors and lighted passenger cars and yes the ZWs do get hot but they always have and always will. No issues with the wiring whatsoever. And I did say do what you are comfortable with.
I will repeat James's post here for the convenience of others who find his ideosyncratic choice of type size as difficult to read as I do:
"Well I've had them on my PW ZWs for years and no problems yet. I use them for whistle and bell but each of us must do what we are comfortable with."
When people say things like this, which they often do, is it because they don't mind, or perhaps get a thrill out of, taking chances? Or do they really believe that there is no risk simply because it hasn't happened to them?
Bob Nelson
There is a way to avoid overloading a whistle controller: Since about 5 amperes is plenty for most trains, you can put a supplementary circuit breaker in series with each track circuit and limit the current to what is actually needed. The full capability of a large transformer is still there to be shared among the several circuits that it might be powering, even though any one circuit is limited. This scheme has a couple of other advantages:
o Your wiring can be much lighter. Five amperes needs only 20 AWG to be safe. If you run really big trains, 7 or 8 amperes needs 18 AWG, and 10 amperes needs 16 AWG. Of course, you might need heavier wire just to reduce voltage drop in a large layout; but a smaller layout can be made safe with lighter wire this way.
o The extra circuit breakers correct a serious safety flaw in Lionel's transformer designs, that leaves no protection against a fault between two transformer outputs. Your layout wiring and the transformer itself can burn up and the transformer's internal circuit breaker will never trip.
Well I've had them on my PW ZWs for years and no problems yet. I use them for whistle and bell but each of us must do what we are comfortable with.
Exactly my point. So, if we want whistle/horn and bell control, and also want something that's not going to melt under load, are we better off to build a controller that can take the heat, so to speak, or is there a way to apply the 6-5906's and not have to worry about the load level?
A few amperes is right, about 4 amperes if its 22 AWG. That's not something you would want to have handling the 15 amperes that a Z or ZW can put out.
Well, it's not #24, it's larger diameter than that. I'd say probably #22 wire. That's good for a few amps, especially since it's such a short run.
While we're on the subject, it doesn't appear to me that the wiring on the #6-5906's is exactly hefty. What size are those leads, #22 or #24 AWG? They don't seem to be adequate to be running a decent sized loco with a few lights, etc. Comments?
I agree all you need is a Lionel # 6-5906, much easier than all the fuss of making one. Apx. $10 to 20 at most Lionel dealers.
I came to the same conclusion. :) It's easy to do the wiring, but the mechanical parts didn't mesh up without looking ugly.
In the long run wouldn't it be less expensive, and agrevating, to just buy a Lionel whistle/bell control, or two. I don't know the part number off hand.
Gunrunnerjohn - How did this project turn out? Got any pictures?
I'm doing research for a similar project. Might as well learn from others who have solves a similar problem.
Thanks.
I actually looked at the 1033's, my only issue is cleanly mounting the switch. I may modify the old one ($15 total on eBay, not much investment in it) with a DPDT switch to do the reversal. The interior wiring is easy, it's only the physical mounting of the switch cleanly that I'm still pondering. I did a simple experiment with a resistor and a diode and indeed it in series acted exactly as you describe, slowing down the train a bit. I was able to reverse the diode and indeed get the bells as expected.
I'm also looking in my transformer junkbox to see if I have a 5V transformer that handles at least 3-4 amps to make an add-on box to solve the issue externally and not modify the transformer.
Probably the simplest way to do it is with two strings of large diodes (6 amperes at least). Connect the diodes in each string to point all the same way. Then connect the two strings in anti-parallel, that is, in parallel with each string's diodes pointing the opposite way from the other's. Finally connect two normally open SPST pushbuttons, each to short out all but one diode in each string. You can also use a momentary SPDT switch to do this.
How many diodes? As few as possible. Try adding diodes until all your whistles and bells respond. The down side of this and probably every add-on whistle controller is that it reduces the voltage to the train in normal operation. (The controller in the transformer box includes an extra 5-volt transformer secondary winding to compensate for this effect.) So you need to be using transformers with enough voltage range that you can turn them up a few volts to make up the voltage lost in the controller.
I just noticed on another thread that you have two 1033 transformers. Unfortunately, these go up to only 16 volts, which is none too high and doesn't bode well for adding an external controller. You say that you replaced the original copper-oxide diodes with silicon. So it might not be too much extra work to rewire those diodes with a DPDT switch to select the polarity. (You can make the wiring a bit simpler too by using two diodes per transformer and an SPDT to select between them.) Then you can operate either whistle or bell with the original control handle.
I have several transformers, all have the traditional horn controller. I also have the RailSounds boxcar, and I'd like to add a whistle/bell controller. I'd rather do this without buying a new transformer, and it's my understanding that this is a reverse polarity DC signal to activate the alternate control.
I searched, but I didn't find anything that addresses actually building one of these, has anyone tackled this type of project? I suspect I probably have any parts that I might need, just need to know exactly how to put them together. :)
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