Thanks for all replys to my inquiry and as a result we have success.Upon inspection of all the fingers I did find a pinhole in one of the lower boards and had to wait for arrival of new boards to test.Works almost flawlwssly as the wiring was in fact correct and the finger was indeed the problem.Thanks again to all you guys are a wealth of knowledge.....
lionelsoni An easy way to check whether the fingers are the problem is to get the reversing unit into a state where the locomotive should be running, then poke each finger with a toothpick. When you hit the offending one, the motor will run. This test is 33 percent easier to do on a Flyer locomotive than on Lionel, which has 50 percent more fingers to go bad.
An easy way to check whether the fingers are the problem is to get the reversing unit into a state where the locomotive should be running, then poke each finger with a toothpick. When you hit the offending one, the motor will run. This test is 33 percent easier to do on a Flyer locomotive than on Lionel, which has 50 percent more fingers to go bad.
A low tech but elegant solution.
Alton Junction
Bob Nelson
Rich:
I don't think it matters what wiring scheme one uses for an SIB steamer - as long as it is done correctly. A reverse unit is a reverse unit. An AC open-frame motor is an AC open-frame motor - as far as supplying power to it via the reverse unit. Working smoke units are working smoke units. The only two concerns that I can think of are: 1) do you want a 5th wire to the smoke unit and B) is there an on-board whistle in the tender. I believe the gent asked for a wiring diagram just as a double-check. If he wires his steamer up with the wiring diagram that I supplied and if that one is different from the first one he used and his steamer still doesn't work, then guess what - it's not the wiring diagram where the problem lies. I hope I didn't offend him when I suggested that it IS the reverse unit fingers. No one likes to be contradicted when they know what they know. To reiterate my point, sometimes it is VERY difficult to determine that the fingers are making contact with the drum. The only way I found out once was by bending them down tighter out of desperation. VIOLA! I got my reverse back. But then I had to relieve just a little tension on them so that the drum could turn without me poking at it.
It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.
Timboy
Timboy Well, I think it's the fingers on the drum of the reverse unit. I read what the original post was. Still, I can recall times when I absolutely swore that those fingers were making contact with the drum and it turned out that they were not OR they missed the contact all together by being a hair out-of-line. At any rate; tremendous props to the poster for calling a reverse unit a reverse unit and not an E-unit! I issued a challenge about a year or so ago on this forum to anyone who could provide original Gilbert factory documentation that they called it an E-unit. That challenge still stands unabated! Let's see how this all turns out... Timboy
Well, I think it's the fingers on the drum of the reverse unit. I read what the original post was. Still, I can recall times when I absolutely swore that those fingers were making contact with the drum and it turned out that they were not OR they missed the contact all together by being a hair out-of-line. At any rate; tremendous props to the poster for calling a reverse unit a reverse unit and not an E-unit! I issued a challenge about a year or so ago on this forum to anyone who could provide original Gilbert factory documentation that they called it an E-unit. That challenge still stands unabated! Let's see how this all turns out...
Assuming that the reversing unit is wired correctly, I agree with Tim that it is probably the fingers. When I rehabbed my old steam engine, I couldn't get mine to run in reverse either. The fingers looked fine but I replaced them because there was nothing else to do. The new fingers got the engine running in reverse. When I closely examined the old fingers, one had a pin hole in the center of the cup shaped end of the finger that makes contact with the drum.
The real question, though, is whether the reversing unit is wired correctly. Did anyone ever come up with a wiring diagram for a #290? I don't think that all 4 wire American Flyer steam engines are all wired the same, not even for engines where the reversing unit is in the tender. My #312 is wired differently than the wiring diagram that Timboy came up with.
Rich
E-unit IS a Lionel term. 'Nuff said. LOL and thank you for verifying that once and (hopefully) for all! LOL
I always thought it was curious that the "brains" of the time decided on the nomenclature of "variable post" and "base post" to delineate two of the American Flyer train transformer posts, while the whole rest of the terms associated with household circuitry refer to terms such as "supply" or "line" and "neutral". Okay. "Variable post" I get - cuz - well, it is. "Base post" then just must be the "other" one. I'm guessing it is because of a toy train transformer being a unique device that can deliver an alternating current of 60 cycles per second; with one post governing just how many volts are pushed, vs. the other (base) post being common to the whole system when multiple transformers are phased. How far off am I?
Regards,
"E-unit" is one example of a Lionel term that is ambiguous, because it is also used for nominal-1800-horsepower General Motors locomotives. Others are "standard gauge" ("wide gauge" in Flyerese) which is either Lionel's 2 1/8 inches or the prototype's 56 1/2 inches, and "Train Master", which is either a Lionel V or Z transformer or a Fairbanks-Morse H24-66 locomotive.
The only American Flyer example that comes to mind is "base", which can mean either the common node of the track circuit or the control terminal of a bipolar transistor.
Of course, most if not all of these terms were used first for toy trains and only later acquired the other meanings.
OBTW, I just saw the date on that "publication". Say... What's your angle? Everybody has an angle.
HO Trains:
OH! I forgot about the Gilbert Times! I didn't think ANYONE read that rag anymore! My bad! LOL Esther. Awesome! LOL
Timboy At any rate; tremendous props to the poster for calling a reverse unit a reverse unit and not an E-unit! I issued a challenge about a year or so ago on this forum to anyone who could provide original Gilbert factory documentation that they called it an E-unit. That challenge still stands unabated! Let's see how this all turns out... Timboy
At any rate; tremendous props to the poster for calling a reverse unit a reverse unit and not an E-unit! I issued a challenge about a year or so ago on this forum to anyone who could provide original Gilbert factory documentation that they called it an E-unit. That challenge still stands unabated! Let's see how this all turns out...
Timboy,
Hey, pal, here is the factory documentation that you have skeptically been waiting for all this time:
rich ho train
Russ D I just rewired my tender from a Flyer #290 Pacific as half the wires were falling off.I used a wiring diagram I found on Portline Hobbies and got it working again.It is a 4 prong unit but I can't get reverse back.It cycles four times then just goes back to forward.I cleaned the drum,replaced one finger board,cleaned all finger boards and made sure there is contact with drum.I am just wondering if I wired it correctly.Is there another schemetic or wiring diagram to be found which may shed some light on my promblem.Any advice would be helpful...Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,Russ
I just rewired my tender from a Flyer #290 Pacific as half the wires were falling off.I used a wiring diagram I found on Portline Hobbies and got it working again.It is a 4 prong unit but I can't get reverse back.It cycles four times then just goes back to forward.I cleaned the drum,replaced one finger board,cleaned all finger boards and made sure there is contact with drum.I am just wondering if I wired it correctly.Is there another schemetic or wiring diagram to be found which may shed some light on my promblem.Any advice would be helpful...Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,Russ
It is odd that you mention this. Because some time back I rewired a 302 Atlantic using the same generic steam locomotive wiring diagram and wound up with exactly the same result. Forward, but no reverse. I could see the unit cycling, and the fingers appeared to be making contact with the drum, But it would only run in the one direction. I put it down to a faulty reverse unit, and wound up replacing the part with an aftermarket electronic version. Now you have me wondering if it wasn't the wiring diagram all along.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
There's a 99.9% chance that they're the same. If it were me, I would use the diagram Timboy has provided.
PHM
-Trying to hurry so I can watch my fantasy teams. There IS a 295, but I don't have a wiring diagram for one.
Tim, that's 293. Is there a 295?
Russ:
Here's a pic of the wiring schematic of a 295, which ought to be the same. I took the pic from my K-Line Repair Manual. Hope I didn't just now break a law.
The image has been removed - in case there are copyright laws in effect.
If you haven't already done so, check out my Flyer build at: http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com
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