Hiya!
Somewhere around here I have a 1985(?) Army issue NBC book, funny how a lot of stuff which used to be highly classified you can buy on Ebay nowadays! I also collect old CD films like "Duck and Cover" and "The House In The Middle" which is probably one of the strangest I've ever seen. Painting your house is good civil defense, at least according to the paint manufacturers that funded the film!
I've probably been bombarded with X-rays at least 100 times in the last 5 years and I'm still non-luminous! LOL While I do wonder about the wisdom of the A.C. Gilbert company selling it in their toy chemistry sets, I realize that the tiny samples they included were mostly harmless. Unless you eat it of course.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Nice response Becky!. Back in the day I was the Nuclear, Biological, Chemical warfare officer in my unit and what you said is correct. I also was the weapons system matrix manager for 105 and 120 mm tank ammo with the depleted uranium rounds so I have seen my share of nasty stuff. However you pick up more rays from the dentist.
However I do remember seeing my toes wiggle in new shoes when they had those x-ray machines in shoe stores! I guess I glow in the dark now! LOL
Before I start, I'll make time for disclaimers and warnings. Beware that any radioactive substance should not be kept in an enclosed container for long periods. Uranium decays to lead over time but along the way it releases Radon gas. Radon has a very short half-life and decays into a metal that can get lodged in your lungs.
OK, some readily available and legal test sources. Get yourself a set of RADIOACTIVE RED Fiestaware china, lots of hobbyists pick them up to calibrate their GM's. It's a low grade source and perfectly safe to have and eat off of. If your counter is sensitive enough, you may also get a reading off of anything made from the yellow-green "Depression Glass". It's official name is Vaseline Uranium Glass because it looks like it has bubbles of Vaseline inside. It isn't being made anymore, but V.U.G. marbles are often available for making jewelry. (That stuff is a lot of fun if you have a blacklight.) Of course there's also some glow in the dark stuff like old watch dials which often contained radium. But the majority of glow in the dark toys/items weren't made with Uranium. Most g-i-t-d stuff is made with Zinc Sulfide. Don't forget about your smoke detectors, they contain radioactive substances too. However, without having a meter professionally calibrated the readings you get off of any of those substances could be irroneous in both directions. So they'll only tell you whether your Lionel GM is working, not how hot anything is.
But it's entirely possible Lionel may have used paints etc. made from low grade materials back in the day, either knowingly or unknowingly. A lot of early 20th century paints and dies used uranium oxide for the red color. Uranium is not a toy, but it ended up in a lot of them. You just have to know what to look for. Either way they're perfectly safe to have around. As an aside, it may have been silver and not radioactive, but the Hindenburg was doped with a chemical cocktail that's used today as fuel for the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters. (Powdered Aluminum and Iron Oxide) Believe it or not, Aluminum is highly flammable in the right environment.
If you want an oddball toy, look for the A.C. Gilbert U-238 experimenter's set. I don't know the exact name of the toy, but it contained a cloud chamber (Ion Chamber) and several small radioactive samples for kids to play with. Wonder how many of those ended up in landfills since the 60's?
Of course if you're really hardcore, but more importantly have the ability to handle such things properly, then I'd recommend United Nuclear. They make old fashioned chemistry sets, Uropium based glow paint and all kinds of neat stuff like mini jet engine kits and t-shirts with unusual sayings. I bought their glow paint and made ore loads for my 512's by painting styrofoam blocks with the stuff. Frank Petruzzo may be the king of the 516 coal trains, but I have my own "nuke train"! lol United Nuclear also sells rocks. Just make sure you have adaquate storage capability and materials handling/testing skills before you try to buy anything"hot" from them or they won't sell it to you.
But yes, I've often wondered about which toys contained radioactive substances and one of these days I'd like to get a GM and test my collection.
For the uninitiated, a "GM" is a Geiger-Mueller test meter. Only meters equipped with a GM tube are true Geiger Counters. The more familiar "Ion Chamber" meters distributed widely for Civil Defense in the 50's and 60's are only useful in the kind of extremely high radiation environments which would only exist after a nuclear event. Most Ion Chamber Meters only detect Gamma which is only given off through nuclear fission. Whereas GM's can detect Alpha and Beta particles which natural Uranium gives off in it's unfissioned state. (And no toy manufacturer to my knowledge ever sold any toy that was capable of producing the nuclear fission of Uranium 235.) Neither Alpha or Beta can penetrate the skin the way Gamma does so Uranium based products like Fiestaware dinner plates are perfectly safe to have. However when it comes to Fiestaware, I'd stop using it to eat off of if the original finish is chipped or cracked.
So, how's that for off-topic? LOL
Becky,
They are GMs, not Ion Chambers. The Lionel one has a broken wire which I never have gotten around to fixing, so I don't know whether it works. Someday. I wonder...did Lionel ever make any radioactive products? Gloss their tinplate pieces with uranium oxide? Would be kind of droll to use a Lionel to test Lionel for radioactivity!
lionelsoni I'm glad to hear the signal is working. Joshua Lionel Cowen also made electric fans, before he made trains. He admitted, "It was the only draftless fan ever made. You could sit right in front of it and feel no breeze whatsoever." The trains were his next idea for what to do with the fan motors.
I'm glad to hear the signal is working.
Joshua Lionel Cowen also made electric fans, before he made trains. He admitted, "It was the only draftless fan ever made. You could sit right in front of it and feel no breeze whatsoever." The trains were his next idea for what to do with the fan motors.
I'd say it was the "best" use for those fan motors. Ol' JL also claimed to have invented the flashlight.
Bob Nelson
Gilbert, at one time, made a fair number of household appliances. I know of fans and vacuum cleaners for sure, but there were also a few that I don't directly recall off the top of my head.
I wasn't any help either, but as they say: "When in Rome........."
Karl
Prewar Pete Hi!--- I'm just sitting back learning a few interesting things about Lionel "side lines". Lionelsoni from Texas helped BIG time with the wiring problem I had. There is now a super-nice prewar block signal up and functioning!!! Thanks to all again---Pete.
Hi!--- I'm just sitting back learning a few interesting things about Lionel "side lines". Lionelsoni from Texas helped BIG time with the wiring problem I had. There is now a super-nice prewar block signal up and functioning!!! Thanks to all again---Pete.
I'm glad somebody was because I know I sure wasn't any help! LOL
nickaix I have both an Anton and a Lionel Geiger counter. Lionel definitely improved on the design: the Anton requires 4 D-Cell batteries, the Lionel only 2.
I have both an Anton and a Lionel Geiger counter. Lionel definitely improved on the design: the Anton requires 4 D-Cell batteries, the Lionel only 2.
Are those true GM's or Ion chambers? I see the Lionel Ions from time to time on the bay but I don't remember the Anton. Of course Cleveland's own Victoreen company's products proliferate the CD meter market. That old Victoreen plant was in the news just recently. I don't remember all of the details of the "incident" but if I remember correctly some kids stumbled into the site and had to undergo all kinds of tests and decon. The site is officially "clean" but because of it's history everybody was cautious.
I have the aftermarket Lionel TMI car. I made paper toxic waste drums to go inside.
Weren't we supposed to be talking about a seamaphore or some kinda thing?? lol
Train-O Becky, WELL DONE! You have done your homework. Lionel had a chicken farm in N.J. to obtain egg whites for painting the insides of binnacles and compasses for the U.S. Becky, you are correct in regards to Joshua Lionel Cowan and his Scientists cooking up many a projects, besides electric trains, etc.. Ralph
WELL DONE!
You have done your homework.
Lionel had a chicken farm in N.J. to obtain egg whites for painting the insides of binnacles and compasses for the U.S.
Becky, you are correct in regards to Joshua Lionel Cowan and his Scientists cooking up many a projects, besides electric trains, etc..
Ralph
Yeah maybe owning that chicken farm led them to release the "Stock Watch" electrified cattle fence system.Gilbert wasn't so different though, just recently I saw an A.C. Gilbert Co. hair dryer on ebay.
Firesteel Lionel purchased Anton-Imco and produced the geiger counters under the Lionel Electronics Laboratories name. I would like to say that I knew this off hand but unfortunately I am not that smart so I had to look it up. Karl
Lionel purchased Anton-Imco and produced the geiger counters under the Lionel Electronics Laboratories name. I would like to say that I knew this off hand but unfortunately I am not that smart so I had to look it up.
Thank you! I knew it was something simple like that but I was having a brain fart! lol
( Because I just know someone will ask....
I bought them as a practical joke: was going to point one at a good friend who was undergoing radiation treatment. She was out of treatment by the time they arrived tho. And still cancer free, thankfully. )
Don't forget about those camera flash devices that got turned into mine detonators during WW1. Or the compass binnacles, telegraphs, radios....etc...etc...etc...
Can you think of a better electronics firm to hire than Lionel to build precise firing mechanisms for A-bombs in the 1940's?
I study the history of the A-bomb as a secondary hobby. I've heard things that nobody will confirm.
Having a memory lapse. What was the name of the division that Lionel owned that made geiger counters after WW2?
Pete,
What Becky posted is not far from the truth.
Joshua Lionel Cowan was responsible for the development of the dry cell battery, which he gave to one of his early business partners. The Ever-Ready Battery Company.
Cowan was instrumental in helping our U.S. Federal Government, especially during W.W. II & the Korean War.
Prewar Pete I think engineers at Lionel missed their calling...should have worked on Manhattan project.
I think engineers at Lionel missed their calling...should have worked on Manhattan project.
Who says they didn't? shhhh.....
Dear Bob, You would be my SAVIOR on earth if you can send me the info on this block signal. I'm ready to pull my hair out trying to figure this out on my own. Not only did someone rip out all the panel wiring, but broke both ends of heater wire! Managed to repair stationary end under rivet O.K.--fastened other end,(contact end) under small inner terminal rivet that is in conjunction with term # 4. This may not be correct. I do have orig. 1938 Lionel set up manual for all exterior "hook-ups". I think engineers at Lionel missed their calling...should have worked on Manhattan project. My E-Mail add. is pfkesting@hotmail.com. My home ph. is (978)-777-7213 I will drive to Texas if need be! Thanks again, Pete.
Here is a thread from earlier this year about the 99. I can e-mail you the schematic that Dick sent me if you give me your address.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/168377/1849361.aspx#1849361
Hi everyone! I'm a new guy here on the block. I've finally decided to dig out my old train set and carefully clean it . Around 1960, my elderly neighbors asked me if I wanted their older sons' Lionel set. If I didn't want it, they were set to throw it out!! Needless to say, 50 years later, I've still got it. The set is mostly 1938 O gauge. Pieces were added up through 1946, I think. Anyway, I have a lot to learn from all of you here. I'm sure some of my questions may seem dumb. Please forgive me--- I'm a "newbie" but model trains have always been in some part of my life along with my two boys for many years! Now that I've bored you to tears, my first question pertains to a wiring restoration of a Lionel block signal, #99N. This is the red base, with silver pole and three lights. It never was working when I got it. The wiring is GONE!! I've rewired the 3 lamp sockets down to the open base, but I have NO idea where they get soldered to on the backside of control panel. I also don't know where the four "outer" wires from the lock-ons go to. Any help or even a shoulder to cry on would be greatly appreciated!!!!!
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