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Flyer Talking Station Needle Lifespan?

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Flyer Talking Station Needle Lifespan?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:49 AM

Does anyone know when the needle in a talking station should be replaced?  One parts dealer says after no more than three plays, and someone who commented on this video says to replace it after one play. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ah3f15r04

Here is one of my own 755s that I used on last year's Christmas layout, and the needle that it has in it was found by my in an old chunk of cork that was lodged in the chimney when I received the station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2V1VMZt64g&NR=1

 

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Posted by Timboy on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:27 AM

Jim:  They have GOT to be kidding you!  One play?  Three plays?  That's a steel needle tracking on a plastic disk.  If anything is going to give, it will be the disk.  I don't think the needle will EVER need replaced.  I bought a Talking Station a few years back and it plays just fine.  I'll wager that needle was 60+ years old.  Now, I'm thinking back to the day when I played LP records on an old phonograph and we did replace the needle every so often.  But those needles were thinner and sharper that the "knitting needle" the Talking Station uses.  If anyone in the business would know the right answer, Doug Peck would.  I can't imagine that he would give even "X" number of plays, but maybe rather "X" number of years of play.  Let's see what happens with this inquiry.

Timboy

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:50 AM

Tim,

           Doug is the one who says in the part description to change after three plays. 

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Posted by Timboy on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:57 AM

Jim:  That has got to be a typo or some other legitimate mistake.  Doug doesn't play games like that and I can't imagine he would knowingly put that sort of info to cause us to buy needles unnecessarily.  I'd like to hear other American Flyer veterans weigh in on this one.  I have a Talking Station.  There is no way I'll change that needle out more than, oh - let's see, ONCE IN MY LIFETIME!  LOL  THE only possible legit explanation I can think of is in in the nth terms of getting a record in mint condition and using a brand-new, microscopically correct needle no more that a couple times to make a digital master recording off it.  THAT I could believe because I'm no audiophile and I would figure, "Hey, what to I know". 

Regards,

Timboy

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Posted by Laurastom on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:31 AM

My original 755, purchased in 1950 has in excess of 500 plays on the original needle and record. The original needles must have been well made of a good quality steel. Keep in mind the plays are brief, maybe 20 seconds long. So it would take 60 to 90 plays to equal one 331/3 LP play. I have no knowledge of or experience with the new replacement needles to comment on their quality or longevity.

If one were to do anything preventative it would be to periodically clean the record of dust and grime. That typically does more damage to the grooves than the needle condition.

Tom

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Posted by Major on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:36 PM

I have two talking stations and have played the reproduction records hundreds of times and have never changed a needle.  I have a friend that has an old military windup phonograph from WWII.  I also do WWII and Civil War Re-enactments.  After hours of playing the old 76 RPM records made out of bakelite we will change a needle.  The steel needles do deteriorate and become blunt.  However I have not experienced that with a talking station needle.

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Posted by arkady on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:48 PM

I don't know the answer for the talking station specifically.  But I'm old enough to remember 78 rpm records and the needles (usually steel) that played them.

The recommendations at the time ran from "replace it after each record" to "replace it twice a year."  I suspect that the first advice is much too often, but exactly when a needle reaches the point at which it's damaging records was never, to my knowledge, definitively determined.

Judging from the number of 78 rpm records I see with wear-damaged grooves, however, I'd guess that far too many people leaned toward the "twice a year" side.

It's your station, and your call.  If it were me, I'd make a tape recording of the message, and arrange to play it back at the push of a button.

 

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Posted by Sturgeon-Phish on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:34 PM

I have hundreds of plays on the same needle and I can not see (or hear) any reason to change it.

Jim

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Posted by Gray Cat on Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:55 PM

Early 78's such as used on a Victrola that were played with a steel (actually osmium tipped on the deluxe needle which was designed for longevity) needle were made to wear out the needle and not the record.. they rode in the bottom of the groove with the sides of the point contacting the walls of the record to reproduce sound. The needles were soft material designed to wear, otherwise with the weight of the reproducer the needle if sharp and made of a harder material like stainless would cut through the record eventually. The reason for changing the soft metal needles frequently and YES usually after one play of a 78 RPM record was that as the tip wore down the needles wider portion rode down farther in the groove. This would literally destroy the record groove walls compromising the fidelity. Sure you would still have playback but it would sound terrible compared to a newer record. LP's and microgroove records came out in the early 50's, since the talking station first came out prior to WWII we can only assume that the records were made very similar to the 78's being used at the time or older technology. If I were a betting man I would say get a bunch of needles and change them frequently. (most of the needles I bought for my Victrola's came in bags by the hundreds to that also speaks to the frequency of changing them). There are newer electronic upgrades for a talking station that reproduce the same things found on a record so if you plan on using your station a lot this might be an option. If it's something only for company, enjoy the novelty.

Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Friday, July 13, 2012 7:34 AM

that sure sounds like the Ted Duncan mechanism/ recording that's found in the Marx Glendale station, and those were guaranteed to play 5000 times.  from my college radio station days i think i remember our 78 turntable having a sapphire tipped needle at ~3-4 grams and it was changed every 100 hours.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Gray Cat on Friday, July 13, 2012 9:04 AM

overlandflyer

 from my college radio station days i think i remember our 78 turntable having a sapphire tipped needle at ~3-4 grams and it was changed every 100 hours.

cheers...gary

 

True Gary, however in the case of these heavy acoustic reproducers they are measured in ounces rather than grams. What is used in the Talking Station is more akin to an old Victrola (sans amplification) or in terms of weight an old Wurlitzer jukebox. Those old lollipop tonearms weighed a ton, but those early 78's in jukeboxes were getting changed out very frequently. Once electric amplification came along it was a whole different ballgame.. I'm running an old GE triple play and it's recommended at 5 grams for optimal performance.. yet the same Rek-O-Kut TT with transcription tonearm tracks at about 1.5 with a Shure cartridge for stereo and I believe those needles are rated at about 1000 hours. Also the high compliance cartridge has a lot to do with needle and record life. Those reproducers on the Talking Station have NO compliance. Which translates into very little if any sideways movement.. In short, these things were not meant for longevity. Stock up on records, stock up on needles.

I'm inclined to believe that the needle on the talking station is meant to be changed more often rather than less. $4.45 will buy you 100 78 Victrola needles on Feebay.. Cheaper to change the needle than to look for a new record.

Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 13, 2012 10:16 PM

Gray Cat,

                  I agree on the needle replacement.  I bought 300 needles from a guy in Gettysburg through ebay for around $15, and I'll install a fresh needle every three plays.  Some might say it is wasteful, but original records are becoming tougher to find, and I am trying to keep them in good shape. 

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