Bruce,
I use grease on gears because that is what Gilbert specified, and I really don't care if it'll dry out in 50 years. It shouldn't go that long with being serviced anyway.
servoguy My only comment on all of this is I would not use grease on anything because it is going to dry out and get hard in the near future and then you are going to have to clean it off which is difficult at best. I have used motor oil for 50+ years with no problem with it drying out and getting gummy. I have cleaned dried grease out of engines and it is no fun at all. Bruce Baker
My only comment on all of this is I would not use grease on anything because it is going to dry out and get hard in the near future and then you are going to have to clean it off which is difficult at best. I have used motor oil for 50+ years with no problem with it drying out and getting gummy. I have cleaned dried grease out of engines and it is no fun at all.
Bruce Baker
Thanks for that input. I have read with interest for some time now your reasoning about the use of motor oil, and I have no quarrel with it.
Just out of curiosity, though, when you use the term "grease", what type of lubricant(s) are you specifically referring to? Are you opposed to the various gear lubes intended for model railroading use?
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
Glad I could help. As for the gears, just clean them in place. Usually the water and dish detergent scrub will suffice, but if it is really stubborn, scrubbing with lighter fluid will make short work of it.
Sturgeon-Phish Spray an electrical contact cleaner that is safe for plastic on the armature and cleanr the face until it is shiney.
Spray an electrical contact cleaner that is safe for plastic on the armature and cleanr the face until it is shiney.
Wow, I followed your advice and sprayed electrical contact cleaner on the windings.
I now have to wear sunglasses when looking at the motor.
Thanks for that tip.
green97probe Rich, Here is how I overhaul these locomotives: 1. Slide the brush caps from the ends of the tubes and remove the brushes and springs. I always install a new set of brushes and springs the first time a service a motor regardless of their apparent condition. 2. Remove the two long screws holding the motor from the chasis and remove the brush bracket. 3. Turn the armature counterclockwise while gently pulling to remove it from the chasis. There should be a small washer on the armature shaft or clinging to the bushing in the chasis. Set it aside and be sure not to lose it. 4. Remove the field from the chasis. 5. Remove the smoke unit from the chasis, as well as the lever and piston. The screw holding the lever can be removed from the gear with a 3/16" nutdriver. 6. Remove all linkage from the wheels along with the grease pan on the bottom of the chasis. 7. Using an old tooth brush, scrub the entire chasis with a solution of warm water and Dawn or palmolive dish detergent. If the whitewalls are dirty, scrub them with Softscrub With Bleach cleanser. Dry the chasis. If the tires are loose on the whitewalls, clean them and use superglue to secure them. 8. Apply a drop of Zippo lighter fluid to all axle busings and where the smoke gear turns on the stud and spin the wheels and gear. This will get any crud that was inaccessible with the previous step. Be sure to let the fluid evaporate afterwards. Set the chasis aside for now. 9. Use a toothpick to remove any accumulation from the slots in the commutator then use alcohol or CRC contact cleaner to clean the commutator. I also like to buff the commutator with Never Dull and followup once more with the contact cleaner. This removes the stubborn buildup easily and leaves the commutator shining like a new penny without scratching. NEVER use anything abrasive to clean a commutator. 10. Use the contact cleaner and cotton swabs to clean the brush bracket, tubes, and caps. Check the bushing in the brush bracket to be sure it isn't loose. If it is, clean it and secure it with a drop of superglue. 11. Replace the linkage, smoke unit, field, and lever and piston onto the chasis. 12. Apply grease to the worm on the armature, as well as a drop of oil to the shaft where it conacts the chasis bushing. Be sure to put the washer back on the shaft before sliding the armature back into place. 13. Reinstall the brush bracket and secure with the two screws. Install new brushes and springs. 14. Apply a few drops of oil to the felt wick in the brush bracket. Apply grease to the axle gear and reinstall the grease pan. Oil the axle bushings, linkage, smoke gear stud, and point when the lever meets the piston. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.
Here is how I overhaul these locomotives:
1. Slide the brush caps from the ends of the tubes and remove the brushes and springs. I always install a new set of brushes and springs the first time a service a motor regardless of their apparent condition.
2. Remove the two long screws holding the motor from the chasis and remove the brush bracket.
3. Turn the armature counterclockwise while gently pulling to remove it from the chasis. There should be a small washer on the armature shaft or clinging to the bushing in the chasis. Set it aside and be sure not to lose it.
4. Remove the field from the chasis.
5. Remove the smoke unit from the chasis, as well as the lever and piston. The screw holding the lever can be removed from the gear with a 3/16" nutdriver.
6. Remove all linkage from the wheels along with the grease pan on the bottom of the chasis.
7. Using an old tooth brush, scrub the entire chasis with a solution of warm water and Dawn or palmolive dish detergent. If the whitewalls are dirty, scrub them with Softscrub With Bleach cleanser. Dry the chasis. If the tires are loose on the whitewalls, clean them and use superglue to secure them.
8. Apply a drop of Zippo lighter fluid to all axle busings and where the smoke gear turns on the stud and spin the wheels and gear. This will get any crud that was inaccessible with the previous step. Be sure to let the fluid evaporate afterwards. Set the chasis aside for now.
9. Use a toothpick to remove any accumulation from the slots in the commutator then use alcohol or CRC contact cleaner to clean the commutator. I also like to buff the commutator with Never Dull and followup once more with the contact cleaner. This removes the stubborn buildup easily and leaves the commutator shining like a new penny without scratching. NEVER use anything abrasive to clean a commutator.
10. Use the contact cleaner and cotton swabs to clean the brush bracket, tubes, and caps. Check the bushing in the brush bracket to be sure it isn't loose. If it is, clean it and secure it with a drop of superglue.
11. Replace the linkage, smoke unit, field, and lever and piston onto the chasis.
12. Apply grease to the worm on the armature, as well as a drop of oil to the shaft where it conacts the chasis bushing. Be sure to put the washer back on the shaft before sliding the armature back into place.
13. Reinstall the brush bracket and secure with the two screws. Install new brushes and springs.
14. Apply a few drops of oil to the felt wick in the brush bracket. Apply grease to the axle gear and reinstall the grease pan. Oil the axle bushings, linkage, smoke gear stud, and point when the lever meets the piston.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.
Jim,
I am blown away.
I appreciate this step by step analysis. I keep this list of 14 points close at hand as I worked on the motor.
Ooops, now that I broadcast my intent to leave the brushes alone, I see that you feel they should be replaced even if they look good. Let me take a closer look at the brushes.
One question that I do have regards the cleaning of the gears. What do you use to remove the old lube and clean the gears. Can they be easily removed or is it better to clean them in place without trying to remove them?
Thanks a bunch.
Sturgeon-Phish Ivesboy is on track. Start by removing the shell. If it has smoke, remember to remove the smoke stack. Once the screws are removed, and the side rods, shift the frame slightly forward to slip it off the rear tabs then left it out. Watch when you remove the spades off the end of the brush tubes, the spring is under tension and will fly if you are not careful. Spray an electrical contact cleaner that is safe for plastic on the armature and cleanr the face until it is shiney. Take a wooden tooth pick and clean the crud from betweenthe segments. Lightly oil the place where the armature goes through the frame and in the oil hole between the brushes. There is usually a felt wick there. Remove all the hardened grease. a tooth pick works good here too. If the wire is in good shape leave it alone. If the insulation is bad I've had luck by stripping the old insulation off then replacing it with heat shrink insulation. The brushes seldom need replaced but if the brush is worn you may need to lengthen the spring to ensure good contact. Most of the engines I've repaired have just needed cleaning and re-lubing. A few pictures of assemblies may help at re-assembly God luck and have fun Jim
Ivesboy is on track.
Start by removing the shell. If it has smoke, remember to remove the smoke stack. Once the screws are removed, and the side rods, shift the frame slightly forward to slip it off the rear tabs then left it out.
Watch when you remove the spades off the end of the brush tubes, the spring is under tension and will fly if you are not careful.
Spray an electrical contact cleaner that is safe for plastic on the armature and cleanr the face until it is shiney. Take a wooden tooth pick and clean the crud from betweenthe segments. Lightly oil the place where the armature goes through the frame and in the oil hole between the brushes. There is usually a felt wick there.
Remove all the hardened grease. a tooth pick works good here too.
If the wire is in good shape leave it alone. If the insulation is bad I've had luck by stripping the old insulation off then replacing it with heat shrink insulation. The brushes seldom need replaced but if the brush is worn you may need to lengthen the spring to ensure good contact.
Most of the engines I've repaired have just needed cleaning and re-lubing. A few pictures of assemblies may help at re-assembly
God luck and have fun
Jim
Thank you so much for that detailed advice. Very helpful. I have already removed the shell and begun to clean the wire windings, field and armature, on the motor. The armature was covered in an opaque colored glaze. I carefully removed all of that. The field windings were basically dirty and grimy, and I cleaned all of that crap off as well.
Timboy gave me similar advice concerning the brushes, so i will follow your advice and leave well enough alone with the brushes; they look fine.
I was busy typing when you posted. Thanks for the reminder about the brush springs. I guess I blocked out all those times I've been crawling on the kitchen floor to find a spring that took flight.
If it already runs, i would just take it apart and clean and lubricate. Replace any bad wiring and brushes. Dont damage anything though. Prewar FLyer parts are not made anymore.
From looking at diagrams and part lists for a vintage American Flyer open frame motor, it appears that the principal parts are: motor fields, armature, brushes and motor springs.
If I were to overhaul or recondition my 60 year old open frame motor which is still in its orignal condition in terms of parts, any suggestions for what to do, what parts to replace, what parts to merely refurbish, etc. ?
I realize that this is a completely wide open question, but I am interested in your thoughts about how to go about the inspection of the motor and a determination of what to do to return the motor to its original condition and performance, at least as best as that can be accomplished with a 60 year old motor.
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