I have collected several Flyer sets and individual engines, cars and accssories from 1946 until the All Aboard sets, just before the end of Gilbert production. That includes a 1946 Atlantic set, as well as my Silver Streak set bought for me Christmas 1952, that being my last parent bought set. All were AC. My father did not like DC so those were out of the question.
Later in life buying Flyer DC was never considered.
UPDATE! The patient is laying on the table in pieces at this time. Another thorough cleaning will commence soon with alchohol and lots of swabs. Apparently I did NOT replace the brushes or springs last time, so they will be replaced. One brush looks like it was not making good contact with the armature. stay tuned......
I was able to check the original Gilbert catalogs this evening. The "Electronic Propulsion" feature (DC permanent magnet motor) was introduced in 1947. The 332 and 342 engines were so equipped. Some had a DC suffix on the number, some did not.. They were in the catalog through 1950, then dropped. The ALNICO permanent magnet armature to convert the other steam engines to DC was available for separate sale. I have one, we used it for several years in our 1950 322AC Hudson. I am not aware of a Gilbert Post-war Diesel ever available for consumer sale, none were cataloged. A factory prototype could have been mocked up. The number 15 Rectifier continued in the catalog for several years after 1950.
The PULL-MOR feature was cataloged beginning in 1953. It was basically traction tires on one set of drive wheels. Some engines received larger motors but not all and that was not part of the catalog description.. At this point all Gilbert production was back to universal motors.
Tom
Becky,
Gilbert referred to their DC motors as Directronic Propulsion motors. The only engines I've ever seen them in are 342DC and some 342 0-8-0 switchers, as well as 332 and 334 4-8-4 northerns.
Wow.
So, just to clarify things here, are we saying that the Flyer Pul-Mor wasn't the best early DC motor?
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
All postwar Gilbert AF (46 thru 67) will operate on DC. Most have universal motors but some were made with permanent magnet motors limited to certain 48 through (I think} 50 production that will only run on DC. Pullmor generally refers to the traction tire equipped engines; some of which were equipped with the "large motors." Hope that helps.
Becky, American Flyer used the name "Pull-Mor" to refer to wheels with rubber tires, not motors as far as I have seen. I had the impression that it was Lionel that recycled the term to distinguish their traditional open-frame universal motors from the permanent-magnet-field "can" motors that they started to use in modern times. Was it ever applied to the American Flyer style of permanent-magnet-field open-frame motors?
Bob Nelson
Hi Becky:
Can you point me to a post-war vintage Flyer diesel (Alco or otherwise) with a factory-installed DC open-frame motor? I've never seen one but I am always ready to learn from others. My source is the TM American Flyer Price Guide. The only non-DC labeled DC loco I can find is the 342 0-8-0. I don't see any diesels listed as having a factory-installed DC motor. Help me out, please and thank you.
Regards,
Timboy
Uh, well if it's accuracy we're looking for here then we should be very careful.
I'll start off by saying that I don't know the EXACT year it happened, but Gilbert DROPPED AC production sometime in the 50's(?) and went entirely to DC thereafter. That's when they stopped putting AC and DC on the cabs. So only early S-Gauge Flyer engines ran on AC since their pre-war buyers all had AC transformers. My source for that info is "O'Brien's Collecting Toy Trains."
The big link in the puzzle is the Pul-Mor motor. That first excellent DC motor bridges the gap between pre-war style universal motors and modern DC-only can motors. A good example of it's influence are the few MPC era engines that run on DC only. Lionel MPC wanted a better, stronger motor with a reduced need for servicing. So they turned to their ownership of the Flyer line and the Pul-Mor was the answer. I have one, the Chessie 4-4-2. I recently bought a Flyer 4B transformer specifically to operate that one set. Normally I run both O and S off a Lionel Type R from the 1930's since I have a 300AC Flyer set. But owning a DC O gauge 3-Rail engine meant I had to have a second transformer. I use Leviton 120v DPDT knives to switch between transformers for that operation, and it's all set up to do that for both O and S. I'll get to use it for S-Gauge whenever I aquire DC Flyer engines.
All modern O gauge engines are DC. They now have chips to change the power from AC to DC built-in so no one has to trash their post-war ZW's. But I suspect O-Gauge manufacturers would rather delete those electronics and get us all switched over to DC.
Becky
Tiger: You are welcome. Point of clarity here. MOST American Flyer steamer locos run on AC track voltage. Some run on DC track voltage. Your #350 runs on AC track voltage and that is probably all you need to worry about right now. The others that run on DC have "DC" in their lettering scheme. For example; the #332 steamer came as a #332AC and a #332DC. That was confined to steamers. I don't know of any original factory diesel issues that were made to run on DC. Notice I said, "original factory". Any piece could be re-fitted with a DC can motor, if the owner so desires. I realize that this may be TMI, but as Bob pointed out - there may be others who will someday do a search on this thread, so accuracy for it's own sake is important.
Don't dismiss the possibility of sending that loco to Portlines Hobbies. It's part of what they do and they are a major player in S gauge trains. If I was in your area, I would be willing to do a servicing of that loco "pro-bono" for you as an encouragement for you to enter the hobby. Point is, there may be someone in your area willing to do the same or at nominal parts-is-parts cost.
If there is anyone else on this forum who knows better or can offer better advice, PLEASE chime in now.
If you decide to tackle this servicing yourself, then do as I suggested in my first response and if you get stuck, run the red flag up and I or someone will coach you through it.
Best of luck to you,
Trying this again, my first repaly did not post.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, the info you gave was every helpful. I may try cleaning it up first and try finding a train club around the Oscoda Michigan area. if that fails a hobby shop that repairs American flyer trains.
Also bob's comment about America flyer trains running on Dc is helpfull'
Thanks again, Tiger
Timboy,
Thanks for all the info, you sure were informative. It will help me a lot. and Bob's comment about all american flyers running on DC also helps. I guess I have to fine a hobby shop around Oscoda michigan that can work on,them unless I can fine train club around here.
thanks again
Tiger
Hi Bob: While I addressed my comments specifically to his issue, your point is well taken.
Thanks,
Tim, although the 350 is meant to run on AC, I'm sure you know that there were American Flyer locomotives intended for DC. I mention this so that Tiger or other readers of this thread don't get into trouble sometime trying to run a DC locomotive on the wrong voltage.
Tiger: If you have absolutely no experience in toy train repair, then it's advisable for you to find a train repair shop locally and take it there for servicing. If there simply isn't any around you within a reasonable distance, you might try contacting Doug Peck at Portlines Hobbies and arrange to send the loco with tender in to him for servicing. Here is a link to his site:
http://portlines.com/
American Flyer trains run on AC voltage supplied by a small transformer that steps down household AC 120v current to around 15 - 20v max AC current. So, any Lionel transformer that will deliver no more than 20 volts AC current should work. If you have one, then you can test the loco by connecting the transformer to the tracks and placing the loco on the tracks. Apply about 1/2 power briefly. Either the train will run or it won't. At any rate, brief power application won't hurt it. But don't leave the power on if it won't move or you may fry the coils. But before you do any of that, turn the loco over and see if you can rotate the armature easily with the tip of your index finger or the eraser on the end of a pencil. If you can't, then the gear box may be kinda gummed up with old grease that has hardened. You can remove the cover on that with a small screwdriver and clean out the old, hardened grease. Then, a couple drops of machine oil on the gear should suffice for now. Also put a couple drops of machine oil on the felt pad that protrudes from the back of the motor. That will lube the armature shaft. If the loco just sits on the track and hums a little, you may have a reverse unit that is sticking and needs servicing. That requires a tear-down of the loco in the case of a #350, as it is in the boiler. You can see the lock-out lever protrude from the top of the loco. Try moving it in one direction or the other until the reverse unit is unlocked and can cycle when track power is applied. If you feel that you have nothing to lose by experimenting on your own, then have at it. But keep track of the way you tore it down, so you can rebuild it. The linkage has to be attached to the drive wheels in a set way. It may help you to take a pic of the loco on either side to see how the linkage looks. Otherwise, take it to a guy who knows how to do it. Maybe there is a train club around you and one of the guys in the club is handy. It doesn't take a huge skill-set to service that #350 and if you could watch what he is doing, you could learn quickly what to do yourself for the next time. There could be a wire that has broken loose and needs re-soldered. Mostly simple stuff, I would wager. I doubt that it will turn up that the armature or field is fried. They were built fairly robust enough to withstand some children's abuse.
Good luck and don't hesitate to post any further comments or questions. Perhaps now that I have broken the ice on this thread, someone else will also chime in.
Hi everyone,
A friend of mind brought over a American Flyer train set, that was given them when they were children (over 50 years ago). They wanted me to see if I could get working again. The probem is I'm a Lional Guy and have every little knowelage of American Flyer Trains.
The train set is The Royal Blue, Engine #350
There is no transformer, (don't know the power it runs on) I have a lot to fine.
I think the engine needs to be repaired. (a manual would help.)
I know most of us work with Lional trains, it's my hope that someone can direct my in the right direction.
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