When they were just friends . . . Lionel shipment to MTH

[Anonymous]

eBay item 5906242522

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4148&item=5906242522&rd=1




here's a historical shipment?

Alan

[spankybird]

FYI – Once upon a time MTH was a retailer and the largest Lionel dealer in the US at that time

[Anonymous]

For the Newbies.......

Once upon a time Mike was a sub-contractor to Lionel for
the tinplate reproduction trains. Mike owned (and still owns)
the tooling, dies, punches, etc. and the manufacturing
rights to make tinplate reproduction items (bought them
from Jerry Williams of (then) Williams Reproductions, now
Williams Electric Trains). Since Lionel no longer had/has
the rights to manufacture them they bought from Mike.

Oh yeah, Back in the day.......(sigh)

[nblum]

Just for the record:

(1) Mike was a Lionel dealer, but never was remotely their largest dealer. Charlie Ro has claimed to be Lionel's largest dealer for most of the last two or three decades. Many other dealers were larger than Mike's Train House.

(2) Lionel has always had and always will have the right to reproduce their own products. Williams reproduced them without Lionel's permission and I believe Lionel never attempted to stop him from doing so. None of these companies, except for Lionel, can put the name Lionel on a 390E or 400E or any other Lionel reproduction as that name is trademarked and clearly the property solely of Lionel.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: FYI – Once upon a time MTH was a retailer and the largest Lionel dealer in the US at that time

Charles RO was much larger Lionel dealer than MTH by a long shot.

[Anonymous]

As others have noted, Mike's Train House (his former retail establishment in Columbia, MD) was never anywhere near the largest Lionel dealer in the U.S., and never claimed to be.

That said, it was one heck of a nice train store, and a whole lot of fun to visit. Mike hosted regular evening get-togethers each month with guest speakers, refreshments, good fellowship, etc. Haven't seen that done anywhere else, before or since (at least not on a regular, monthly basis).

[spankybird]

Quoteing from “A Toy Train Story” page 23 second column, second paragraph

QUOTE: Meanwhile, MTH had become one of Lionels’s biggest dealers.

tom

[3railguy]

A toy Train Story is a book about MTH trains and MTH biased. You can't believe everything you read. The key word in the quote is "one of". Certalinly not the largest.

[FJ and G]

what a warm, fuzzy story. So Mike and Lionel once were friends!

[Anonymous]

HUMMMM

I started this thread because I thought that the eBay auction was only tangentially for the box. It is actually for the dealer display of Railscope.

I thought it would be fun to have what appears to MTH's Railscope dealer display that was sent to Mike's Train House for display purposes. Why? Because of the mega lawsuit.

Instead, this topic is peppered with our journies down memory lane, when MTH was a mere dealer. Which is what is so fun about these threads they start somewhere and end anywhere!!

Alan

[Anonymous]

Actually, Mike was never a "mere dealer." He has been making trains since his teen years--first for Jerry Williams, and then on his own with tooling he purchased from Jerry.

His former retail store was only part of his operation (the store was located on the same site as his offices and other facilities), and he was making O gauge and Standard Gauge tinplate trains all along. There was always a beautiful assortment of those colorful toys available at his retail store, along with Lionel and a number of other brands.

[Anonymous]

$817.17....... sold at auction!

[Anonymous]

Neil Blum;

I never meant to infer that Mike had the right to make LIONEL
branded reproductions or that Jerry Williams did either. When
they made their reproductions they were branded as "Williams
Reproductions" with RR heradls in place of the LIONEL brand.
Mike brands his as MTH. As for the right to build the trains, they
indeed were/are legally held by the owners of the machinery.
That is, in fact, why Lionel had to sub-contract with Mike to be
able to have reproduction tinplate trains to sell. The patents
and manufacturing rights had expired decades earlier and Mr.
Williams picked up the machinery and began making the old
great tinplate stuff of our fathers' and grandfathers' eras. He
hired Mike Wolf to help assemble the trains for him and that is
how Mike got his start. Mike later purchased the machinery
and manufacturing rights from Jerry Williams when Mr. Williams
moved into other business ventures and train ventures.

How do I know these things? Well, my late Dad and his brother
knew/know Jerry Williams quite well and have for a couple of dec-
ades. My cousin knows Mike Wolf very well and has since college.
(They both attended Md U. and got marketing degrees.) I know
both Mr. Williams and Mike Wolf on speaking terms. They both
care greatly about trains, they are both extremely intelligent, they
are both successful businessmen, and yes, they both have the
occassional "bad hair day" like all of us. They both make a pretty
darn good product. They both are hard-working and have no
"hidden agendas". They both have taken some "hits" over the years
for the hobby, but bear no malice towards any person or entity.
And unlike Lionel, they both have stayed pretty true to their course
over the years when it comes to train making and business. They
have many long-term employees that go back many years with
their respective companies, unlike Lionel who seems to change
employees and strategies more often than some change their
underwear!

Now before I get accused of being a "Rah-Rah" section for these
guys, let me make it clear that I don't own ANY Williams stuff and
only TWO pieces of MTH (the PCC car and the Doodlebug in B&O).
My collection is 95% Lionel PreWar with some Ives and a few
Lionel PostWar items. I just don't have room for anything more!
However, I WON'T own ANY of the NEW Lionel items due to the
overblown price, shoddy quality and non-support for the customer.
I spend quite a bit of time repairing new Lionel items for friends
who buy them defective right from the factory and get NO support
from Lionel. It's grown into a business for me in retirement! I
buy my parts from 3rd party suppliers, make them in my shop,
or buy at train shows. At least there I can get face-to-face contact
and help from people. I even buy parts from Mike at York where I
can discuss things with him in person. He has never been unhelp-
ful with me or anyone I have personally known.

BTW, once upon a time Jerry Williams also sold excess repro
parts and supplies at train meets too. Was able to talk to him at
these places as well. Many good and helpful conversations.

This post is not meant as a "slam" or a "flame". Just thought maybe
some people would like a little more personal view of things in
light of all the speculation, etc. that seems to fly around. The views
are, naturally, tainted by my perspective as an aquaintance and
some more personal contact with these two than most here seemed
to have had.

[3railguy]

Lionel not only owns the Lionel name, they own the design to prewar Lionel. MPC had no interest in reissuing prewar tinplate which is why they allowed Williams to reproduce it. The only Lionel owner that enforced the design aspect was Richard Kughn. He did enforce it legally. In the mid 80's. He used our legal ststem to end T Reproductions manufacture of Lionel reproductions. I'm not talking just the Lionel name. Anything that was a reverse engineered product of Lionel. Reverse engineering is illegal and you must have permission or pay a fee. T Reproductions sent out a flyer informing this and sold off the remaining stock. Wolf and Kughn's partnership had a lot to do with Lionel owning the designs. For Richard Kughn to remake or refurbi***he tooling would of been too big of an undertaking. That is why he approached Samhongsha. Their tooling and labor costs were much cheaper than the states and they had the know how.Samhongsha told him to go through Mike Wolf.

[3railguy]

Ooops, hit the button one two many times

[3railguy]

Ooops, hit the button one two many times