KMT Trains

[Anonymous]

In the latest issue, on the last page I believe of the plastics article, there is an advertisement depicting KMT Trains. I'm only 22 and have never heard of KMT Trains. Could someone explain them to me? Are they collected today by people or did they vanish? I tried doing a net search and couldn't find anything....

[alton6]

Kris Model Trains (KMT) folded decades ago. It was a line of very good quality. Cars were quite sturdy and more semi-scale than traditional in size. A lot of these cars live on, fitted with different trucks, in the Williams line.

If you are looking for the REAL thing, keep an eye out for American Model Toys (AMT) cars and locos. 'Twas the papa.

Welcome to the forum.

Carl

[Dave Farquhar]

KMT (as well as its parents, Auburn and AMT) don't have a huge following today. They're nowhere near as easy to find as Lionels of the same vintage, but I've seen KMT boxcars in original boxes for $10 or $12. I guess you could call KMT the Marx of O31. If you're looking to build up a fleet of semi-scale rolling stock inexpensively, they're a good bet.

They pop up on eBay occasionally. Again, usually the going price is pretty low. Frequently the seller doesn't know what it is, so they're often misclassified. The KMT rolling stock that I've seen have the initials "KMT" molded into the wheels.

[Dave Farquhar]

I forgot, before the tooling ended up at KMT, it spent some time with a company called Kusan. The story is told in Greenberg's Guide to Kusan Trains. The book is long since out of print, but your library may be able to get a copy through interlibrary loan.

[3railguy]

KMT (Kris Model Trains) is also known as Kusan. Andy Kriswaulus (sp) owned the company. They offered both 3 rail and 2 rail 027i***rains. The 3 rail models were compatible with Lionel but cheaper.

Kusan sold much of its tooling to Williams and K Line. The RMT Beeps are from old Kusan tooling which Williams owned for awhile (Might Mite). Williams F-7's and K-Line Alco FA shells are made from old Kusan tooling. K-Line shadow rail track also originated from Kusan track tooling (042). It has the same rail profile as Lionel 031.

Greenburg printed a book on these trains.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all of the great info guys! I think a few of these cars might have to end up in my collection now!

[marxman]

The tooling anthology goes like this: AMT (American Model Trains), KMT (Kusan Model Toys) KMT (Kris Model Trains--no engines, just boxcars, stockcars & reefers) sold to Williams Trains, sold to K-line, plus Ready Made Toys.

[marxman]

Type KMT or Kusan into the eBay Search. There are always a few listed for sale.

[mkohn]

Speaking of AMT trains, does anyone have wiring information on an AMT F3? The motor runs great, but won't run on the track. And there are some loose wires inside the body. Can't figure this out. Thanks

[alton6]

Wish I could help you out with the AMT f-series engine wiring. I've got two of these puppies, both in Burlington. One runs great, but only in forward. The other--dead in the water. With many and varied wires inside, it resides on a shelf.

Nice pieces aren't they?

Carl.

[mkohn]

Yes, I like these AMT pieces, but I really want the engine to work. Do you know if any repair manuals or sheets exist? Or any articles in back issues that explains any of this?

Michael

[choochin3]

I recently purchased a unpowered locomotive made by Kusan.It is all plastic even the wheels.Black and silver paint.Kusan Kannonball lettering in red.Does anyone have any info on this unit ? I would like to know what cars and other pieces came with this train. Any help would be greatly apprieciated !!!! THANX!!!

[alton6]

mkohn....I haven't heard of any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I have seen generic articles in CTT and elsewhere. Just the other day, I read a piece in an 80's TCA Quarterly about Bill McClain's Kusan. But, no really technical stuff. Anyone?

choochin3.....Kusan was a plastic product manufacturer, I think primarily in the electonics field back in the mid to late 50's. They also sought to produce lower-end toy train niche items with as few parts and as much plastic as possible. I think the Kannon Ball had a few cars. Some sets were motorized. Kusan today is mostly remembered for it's Atomic Train set which was marketed after the Sputnik hullabaloo.

Carl

[choochin3]

I remember seeing the Atomic train many years ago at Pro Custom in Catonsville.I think that it had a target car similar to Lionels But the target was a ping pong ball or a styrofoam ball.Didn't Kusan trains run on 2 rail tinplate track?Thanx alton6 for your reply!!!

[Anonymous]

I, too, have some KMT items. I have the diesel that you described,
I also have a diesel that is pinted all silver and is lettered for Burl-
ington. Also have a yellow plastic unpainted boxcar that is a fair
copy of the Lionel 6464 series boxcar with an open door (molded)
on one side. And a caboose, again, yellow unpainted. The boxcar
is lettered "Kusan Railroad" "K.R.R" with the number 70203 and
capacity and load limits and weights. The lettering is on the open-
door side. No lettering on the closed-door side. the caboose is let-
tered "Kusan Line" with the number 2710 on one side. This is the
same caboose that appeared on the Taylor Made Trucks Lionel
series and is marketed by K-Line for teir lower priced trains. I also
understand that Ready Made Toys is getting ready to market this
caboose to go with their line of locomotives. Hope some of this is
helpful to you. I don't know the numbers on my plastic diesels as
they are packed away. Will try to dif them out and check.

[alton6]

The traditionally-sized Kusan trains with plastic wheels could run on either 2-rail or 3-rail. I think Kusan also made a track system which was convertible either way. These engines were generally powered for 2-rail, a few by battery like the forerunner of the current RMT "switcher". I don't have any of these and can't verify, but some people have commented that these engines were light weight and marginally powered. Weight could be added, of course. At it's price point, Kusan's K-Series locomotives and cars were fairly innovative, and more than a few survive today.

Carl

[Anonymous]

The plastic wheels, trucks and couplers on the Kusan
rolling stock that I have are compatible with Lionel and
other trains of today and will run on their track. I had to
add some weight to the cars unless they were on the
end of the train or they tended to derail from being pull-
ed off the track by other regular cars.

The engines, on the other hand, have very narrow treads
on the wheels and tend to derail by the inside wheel
falling into the rail and the outside wheel climbing the
rail. This is the main reason I packed away those locos.
I am getting ready to pull them out and display them on
shelves in my train room as static models. The locos are
fair duplicates of Lionel's ALCO FA-1 diesel locos. Could
even pass as direct copies (I wonder who came first?)

(edited for typos and spelling)

[Anonymous]

Here is a good quick read on the American Model Toys, Inc. history

http://dfarq.homeip.net/article.php?story=2004062921594032

[Anonymous]

Link goes to a page by Dave Farquhar. It has a search
engine. When I key in "American Model Toys" it lists a
story line. When I attempt to open a story line it reverts
to a blank/home page and the story will not appear.

Broken link? What's up? The story looks like it could
be interesting!

(edited for spelling and typos)

[Dave Farquhar]

Kind of weird to see a link to your own stuff in a forum posted by someone else...

As far as the link goes, it just worked when I tried it. Brought up the story in the first go.

I've seen a peculiar behavior where my stylesheet causes Internet Explorer to bury the story content. It's not consistent in when it happens so I haven't been able to fix it yet. Try scrolling to the bottom of the page and see if the story shows up there, and let me know if you run into anything else.

Thanks,

Dave

[Anonymous]

Dave F;

Tried again, scrolled to bottom and it worked.
Thanks for the tip and the great story. Sorry I
misspelled your name in my last post. I fixed
it.

[Anonymous]

Dave, I didn't realize that I was posting a link from a member of this forum or even a poster of this thread. I ran across your article when I was trying to acquire information on several AMT, Inc. passenger cars, rolling stock, and diesels we have, at the museum I help out at (see "Web" below post).

Do you have a good knowledge of their product line?

I know for a fact that we have three diesels (IC (A) & WM (A-A)), 14 passenger cars (NH, NYC, Pennsylvania, Santa Fe, & Texas Special), a C-101 Steel Sided Caboose (Burlington Route), a plastic SL&SF Caboose (probably Kusan-Auburn), and two 324 Cattle cars (M-K-T & Unknown). We also know we have a black tanker (DOW), two boxcars (Yellow w/ black roof & ends - UP), two hoppers (black Wabash - brown NYC), and four gondolas (black NKP, N&W, & Reading - brown WM) from Kusan-Auburn.

Our problem is that we have a large quantity of boxcars w/ add-on movable metal doors (17) and reefers (14) and a few have the same type of couplers found on the engines, C-101 caboose, and passenger cars, but have no manufacturers' stamp on them. They all appear to be the exact same mold for all boxcars or reefers, but come in a huge selection of colors and road names. All pieces are decaled and many are lifting or have peeled away. We have no idea if any of these pieces (except for the passenger cars) have been repainted. As far as I know there are no boxes for these items.

[Dave Farquhar]

I'm sorry, I don't have a very good knowledge of their product line. I got one of their cars dirt cheap, got curious about it, and tried to find out what I could about the company. Since all I could find online was about two paragraph's worth of info, I did some more research, and posted what little I was able to find out on my website so I could hopefully help someone.

There was a book titled Greenberg's Guide to Kusan Trains. It's out of print but your library may have it or may be able to get it for you. That'll be your best bet for identifying the cars and helping you determine if any are repainted. The Greenberg books are good at pointing out little variations that help you to identify a piece, like subtle differences on the trucks, etc.

[alton6]

ogauge4cats.....I'm guessing that you may have some Williams items in your list. Williams reproduced versions of the modestly priced K-Series cars--dow tank cars, etc. in years past. I think Williams usually sold this line with metal trucks and wheels. Also, Williams has produced a LARGE number of roadnames in the F-series engines and box and stock cars in the semi-scale size.

The Kusan book is a good read. You might be on the lookout for The Story of Williams Electric Trains by John Hubbard (Greenberg, 1987) as well.

Carl

[alton6]

Dave Farquhar....Just a couple of comments on your commentary on your website about AMT and Kusan. I think kusan originally continued production of AMT's semi-scale cars and diesels, but found they weren't selling well. The atomic and "space" cars and sets and other "traditional" sized cars were molded in Kusan's own plastics shop and conceived by their own designers.

Also, Andy Kriswalus, (Kris Model Trains/KMT) died September 6, 1990. Kriswalus is certainly another little remembered figure in O gauge evolution.

Thanks for providing the information. Like you, I bought an intriguing semi-scale AMT stock car (CB&Q) a couple of years ago, and have been interested in the line ever since.

Carl

[Anonymous]

Alton6, If you read my post again, you'll see that I already know for a fact that certain pieces are what they are. My only real question was about the boxcars and reefers. We originally thought they were produced as some sort of basic undecorated & unpainted kit, but the trucks on a few are rivetd to the bottom (it is a non-discript (undetailed) piece of plastic and each one have four screws (one in each corner) attaching it to the shell).

EDIT: Forgot to close parenthesis

[alton6]

Perhaps, some of these were undecorated cars/assembled parts farmed out during one of the ownership transitions. Kris Model Trains offered reefers; I'm not aware that any predecessors did. Not sure about the Frank's Roundhouse cars of Frank Ra***hat came later. Maybe, the decals and rivets were an after-market project?

[Dave Farquhar]

Carl, thanks for the corrections. I've made the changes.

[Anonymous]

Here are some photos of what we have (working on better ones).

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cableconnection3/Photos/Trains/AMT.html

EDIT: Forgot to close parenthesis.

[alton6]

ogauge4cats....Most interesting to see an AMT caboose done in Burlington Route decoration. CB&Q is one my favorite roadnames! I didn't know such existed, but then American Model Toys was a midwestern firm so of course it was certainly possible. Are you sure that it isn't a repaint....?

Is the road number 13570 and the upper number 1357? It's a little hard for me to tell.

Carl