Bob,
It must be true. Because I connected the COMM to the outside rail and the NC to the center (and then of course the AUX's to the transformer). And it works. Thank you.
If there is a relay inside it (there wouldn't have to be one), its contacts are connected to something inside the ITAD; and I don't know what that is. If it is simply that the common of an SPDT (form C) contact on the relay is connected to one of the accessory-voltage terminals, and that the other accessory terminal is connected to the "COMMON (-)" terminal, then there is no problem with connecting the COMMON (-) terminal to the trolley loop's outside rails and the NC terminal to the center rail of the trolley's stop blocks, while the other trolley center rails are connected to the accessory terminal that goes to the relay contacts.
If any of this is not true, then it becomes problematic to be running into and out of the stop blocks, because they are powered from a source different from the rest of the trolley loop. In that case, you could use the ITAD to operate a relay other than any that is already inside the ITAD and use the contacts of that relay to unpower the stop blocks.
Bob Nelson
Right. My scheme has the trolley bump back and forth over 5 power blocks using fiber pins. The crossing track and both ends have continual power. The sections on either side of the crossing track will get the power interruption.
I must not understand what "separate relay" means? I thought that's the only way an ITAD worked.
Thanks.
There may be a larger problem with this scheme: What happens if the train shuts off power to the trolley when it is right on the crossing? I think that the crossing itself should always be powered as far as the trolley is concerned, so that it will always get out of the way. The entire rest of the trolley loop, or just a short stop block ahead of the crossing, should have its power interrupted by the ITAD, so that the trolley will not enter the crossing when the train is approaching.
If the ITAD simply has relay contacts in series with one of the accessory terminals that power it, this can be done fairly simply once the puzzle of what is connected internally to what is sorted out. If it in fact puts out DC, as its markings suggest, then there is little hope that the "COMMON (-)" terminal is in fact common with either of the accessory terminals. In that case, the solution may be to let the ITAD operate a separate relay (DC or AC as appropriate), which would then interrupt the center rail of the stop block.
For some strange reason, both MTH's ITAD's connect the aux power return to the common terminal of the internal relay. I'm in the process of building my own "Itads" using a circuit from my HO days. The relay contacts are in no way connected to the aux power that will run the circuit.
A Day Without Trains is a Day Wasted
I couldn't find any useful information about that thing on the MTH site; but I finally came across this incomplete description: http://www.mth-railking.com/service/ITAD.pdf It's obviously not anything like I imagined. For example, I assumed that the common terminal was the common of an SPDT switch, when in fact it seems to be a DC (really?) return.
Brent,
Thank you for your suggestion. I have several of these ITADs already working with other accessories such as crossing gates and signals. Using a trolley as the accessory has been the problem.
I GOT IT!!!!!Here is what you do.1. Move the rocker switch to 'AUX POWER'2. Attach the terminals from Transformer 2 to the AUX POWER terminals on the IRD3. Attach a wire from the 'COMM' accessory post to the center rail of the trolley track4. Attach a wire from the 'NC' accessory post to the outer rail of the trolley track5. DO NOT connect anything to the train track6. Adjust the sensitivity pot and Delay Time pot so the train clears the trolley track before power is restored to the trolley track
http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/download/instruction/40as15041i.pdf
There is a rocker switch opposite the AUX terminals, make sure you have this set to 'Aux Power'. Then connect Transformer 2 to these posts. NOTHING gets connected to the NO, NC, COMM terminals (these are used for attaching an accessory to the IRD).Now, you need to look at the binding posts that you cut off. Make sure you have the correct post attached to the correct rail. Looking down on the IRD with the binding post pointing away from you, the right post attaches to the center rail and the left post attaches to the outer rail.
Right, I've been keeping the train loop transformer separate the whole time. So that really is 3 transformers I've been working with.
But I was referring to the trolley and the IRD, which I had on separate transformers (separate from each other and from the train).
The setup I described does call for separate transformers, which I labeled "transformer 1" and "transformer 2".
Tried it. No response from either the trolley or the IRT that way. The only way I've gotten it to work is to keep them on separate transformers, and to keep the IRT voltage at minimum.
OK, I will try that. Thanks.
Connect one terminal of transformer 1 to the outside rails of the train loop. Connect the other terminal of transformer 1 to the center rail of the train loop.
Connect one terminal of transformer 2 to the outside rails of the trolley loop. Connect the other terminal of transformer 2 to the common terminal of the infrared device. Connect the normally-closed terminal of the infrared device to the center rail of the trolley loop.
Connect the auxiliary power terminals of the infrared device to the terminals of transformer 2.
The two transformers are both 60 watt Lionel 1043. There are only two posts for variable voltage, and no fixed posts. The outside rails are not connected together. The IRD is a Realtrax which clips to Realtrax track, or can be wired to the transformer (with the clip removed). I do not see a model number. The IRD has 5 posts: Two posts (marked aux power) are wired to one 1043 transformer. The other 3 posts are: comm, nc, no. The trolley middle rail goes thru the comm/nc posts then to the other 1043 transformer; the outside rail goes directly to the common post on the 1043.
I found that if I set the IRD transformer to very low voltage, and the trolley to much higher, I seem to get reasonable power to trolley. Earlier I had them set to about equal voltage.
What transformer brands and models are you using? What are the transformer terminals connected to? Are the outside rails of the two tracks connected together? What brand and model of infrared detector? What are its terminals connected to?
Thanx, Cheech. I looked at the diagram. Looks over my head. I'll have to study that one.
Bob, It kind of sounds like the trolley is picking up power from both its own transformer AND the transformer that powers the IR. So it doubles the voltage with the 2 transformers out-of-phase, and cancels each other out when in-phase (?). Anyway, I don't see how the trolley is picking up the IR's power. I mean I'm using this same method to trigger crossing gates and other accessories, and works fine.
look on the z stuff web site for wiring crossings to prevent collisions. it is uner applications. while this uses the z1011 the wiring is basically the same for all of the infrared detectors, the mth, lionel and zstuff.
ralph
lionelsoniThe trolley line is being powered by two transformer secondaries in series. How this happens, I cannot say without much more detail of the wiring and a specification of the infrared contraption.
The trolley line is being powered by two transformer secondaries in series. How this happens, I cannot say without much more detail of the wiring and a specification of the infrared contraption.
I'm using a RealTrax trigger. It can be connected to RealTrax, or you can remove the connector and run wires to auxiliary power. Since I don't have RealTrax track, I'm wiring it to a 60 watt transformer. I've got the trolley track power wired from another 60 watt transformer to the "normally closed" posts.
Not sure about the IR control, but I believe several years ago, CTT had a article on using a relay to work such a crossing. That may be a better solution. Not sure what issue, but they do have a searchable data base, or perhaps someone here remembers it.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
I've got a trolley line crossing a train line. The crossing track is altered to keep the power on the 2 lines separate. The power on the trolley line goes thru an infrared trigger which is facing the train line, so that when the train comes thru, the trolley stops.
The trigger stops the trolley power ok. However the voltage to the trolley is too high (20-30 volts) with the transformer's plug turned one way, and too low (1-2 volts) with the plug turned around the other way.
With the trigger removed, the trolley runs fine.
Does anyone have an idea what the problem is? Thanks.
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