O 31 Lionel Switch Question

[Sara]

I am attempting to build an 0 scale layout, my first, and have a question about switches.  My layout has 6 Lionel 031 Remote Control Switches.  What is the correct placement of the plastic insulator pin?  Is it always on the inside of the "V" end of the switch?  What if I connect two switches together as if I put them both on the inside of the "V", then I would end up with a metal pin in the center and the two plastic pins on either side at the point the two switches meet.  Does that make sense?

 Also, what source would you recommend to someone who has no idea how to wire a layout?  I bought a new Lionel ZW Controller for the trains and bought the book, "Greenberg's Wiring Your Lionel Layout" by Peter Riddle but to be quite honest...I don't get it.

 

[lionelsoni]

Assuming you're talking about 022 turnouts, the control rails are not where you describe.  (What model turnouts do you have?)  The one for the straight path is the short rail that ends at the frog.  The one for the curved path is part of the full rail on the inside of the curve, opposite the frog.  Another way of describing it is that, if you are facing the points of a left-hand turnout and looking along the track, each control rail is on the left as the track exits the turnout.

It is "common" for the insulating pins to cause trouble when two turnouts are connected together as you anticipated.  If the two turnouts require insulating pins in different outside rails, the continuity of the layout common is interrupted, often causing odd behavior.  One way to fix it is to put a section of ordinary track between the turnouts, so that the metal ties restore the connection from one outside rail to the other.  However, it is a simple matter instead to just make a second connection from the transformer to the outside rail in any part of the track that has become isolated.

Riddle is a professor of music education.  In my opinion, he has some serious misunderstandings of electricity and is not qualified to write those books.  Search "Riddle" on the forum for more detail.  I have not come across any book that I would recommend.

[Taranwanderer]

Sara: first, welcome to the forums...these guys have more information collectively than I'll ever have, they've saved me several times now. As for your layout: you didn't say how big your layout is, and if you're using conventional or command locomotives, there's some variables in the wiring there. If you can let us know what you have (locomotive-wise, and layout size-wise,) we can probably get you started. Cheers!

[Sara]

I am using 022 Lionel switches and my track config has two left hands connected to one another and three right hands connected so I'm confused about where my insulator pins should be.  I am attempting to build John Long's Bay Line Railway in "Layout Plans for Toy Trains" magazine by Classic Toy Trains, minus the bascule bridge.  My layout is L shaped - 14 feet down one side and 17 feet down the other (a little too adventurous for a first timer I now think!).  I have all of the track setup and I'm running conventional Lionel locomotives.  My control unit is Lionel's ZW with two 180 transformers.  There is a copy of his layout on this link but I'm not using the same bridge or buildings. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=6aR5Kx7AkFIC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=the+bay+line+railway+by+john+long&source=bl&ots=LoBDx_GZLW&sig=PNPNTE-TZ3BpIy82JRUqaxdqqQo&hl=en&ei=OQRWTIX7IsP88Aazh7WqDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=the%20bay%20line%20railway%20by%20john%20long&f=false

[servoguy]

One thing I have thought about doing but have not done yet is to cut the rails that are used for the non-derailing feature. I would cut them with a cut-off tool on a Dremel tool. I would make the cut about one inch from the end of the rail. Then I would replace the insulating pin with a steel pin and add a jumper wire on the underside of the switch to connect these two short outside rails to the other outside rails. This would eliminate the problem of dealing with insulating pins, and would allow you to join two switches together without an intermediate piece of track. Now here is the catch: I haven't done this yet, so I don't know what will happen to the rails when they are cut. However, It would always be possible to glue the rails down or drill small holes on either side of the rail and use a short piece of copper wire looped through the holes and soldered to the rail to keep the rail in place. I think the curved rail might be a problem, but the straight rail should be OK based on other things I have done with the 022 switches. I cut some of them down, and after cutting them, the short rails only had one set of tabs holding them in place, but it worked OK. The later model 1122 switches did not require insulating pins. They were made similar to what I am proposing here. Bruce Baker

[servoguy]

BTW, Sara, you should read my long post on refurbishing 022 switches. Search 022/711 switch operating pblms. I think I discovered every problem an 022 switch can have and have a solution for all of them in this post. I recommend you go through your switches before you put them in a "permanent" layout. I have 86 022 switches and went through all of them. It was a big job, but the switches work wonderfully now. Bruce Baker

[The wise young man]

 wait whats the purpose of insulator pins on a switch?

[Taranwanderer]

The insulating pins allow for the automatic derailing feature of the switches to work, ie, if the train is coming from one direction into the "y" but the switch is thrown in the other direction, when the wheels hit the insulated rail, it will complete the electrical circuit and throw the switch to the correct position to prevent derailment. As for the size of your layout, Sara: I would recommend using "bus" wiring beneath your layout: use a long, heavy black wire and a long heavy red wire, run them underneath the layout along your track pattern, attach them to your transformer's outputs, and then every 4-6' drop a pair of wires down through the platform, connect the red to the center rail and the black to the outer rail. This will assure you have a consistent voltage across your entire layout because it doesn't depend on the track joints to provide all the electrical connectivity. It will help your locomotives to run evenly and will help keep you sane down the road, too. I'm sure there's more advice to be had on here as well. Good luck!

[jackiejr1951]

 

Hey Bruce  I have a ? concerning one of my 022 switches. Because of a connection problem the switch got into a "confused" state (chattered back and forth rapidly). I have since fixed the connection problem but the switch no longer functions. If I disconnect the rod coming out of the coil the track mechanism works fine ( can manually change direction of the turnout). I cannot manually slide the rod in and out of the coil. When I apply power to the switch it will not move. Light works. Why would the coil freeze up the rod even if it burnt up? It is a new switch also. What do you think?!   Thank's John

[servoguy]

John, It may be that when the switch motor was chattering, that the coil got hot enough to distort. I think the coils are wound on a plastic bobbin which will not take much heat. Does the coil have the smell of burned electronics? Can you see inside the coil to see if the bobbin is distorted. You mentioned that it is a new switch. Do you mean a new 022? IMHO, the new 022 switches are not nearly as good as the old ones. There was a post some time ago on trains.com talking about the sliding switch contacts in the motors eroding away due to arcing. I have never seen a PW 022 switch with the contacts eroded. I have some newer versions of the 022 switches with model numbers 5xxx (don't have the switches where I am right now, so I can't tell you the exact number). These switches had tolerance issues which required bending some of the parts to fix. I buy the 022 switches for $7.50 each including the controller, lantern, and fixed voltage plug. I have to spend about 1.5 hours going through them to make sure everything is correct. The things I did to them should keep them running for the next 100 years. I have 86 022 switches. Needless to say, I have a lot of time in them.

[servoguy]

Sara, If you want to make a good connection between your track sections, do the following: Bend the center rail where the pin is installed slightly to the right and bend the outer rail to the left. Grab the rail with pliers where the pin is installed so you don't crush the rail with the pliers. Bend the rail so the end of the pin is about one pin diameter offset. You will not need to pinch the open ends of the rail so that the pins are tight. I put together a huge layout on the floor this way, and needed very few feeds. Taranwanderer's advice about using a power bus under the layout is good, but if you also bend the pins, you will have a nearly perfect power distribution. You can bend the pins on the 022 switches, also, but be gentle and don't break the plastic. Bruce Baker

[lionelsoni]

John, I agree with Bruce, that the bobbin has been melted.  If you can get the slug out of it and it's not too badly distorted, you may be able to recondition it by running a drill through the hole.  That worked for me once.

[servoguy]

John, If you use Bob Nelson's drill trick, take off as little material as possible. If you cut the insulation on the wire, the switch motor is scrap. Bruce Bake

[jackiejr1951]

Not sure what the slug is that you mention. Is that the rod "shaft" that is located protruding from the center of the coil? If I try to "knock" hammer it out of the coil will that be the way to go? No noticable damage to coil or burnt smell as you asked earlier. If not successful repairing is the coil/plunger"shaft" something that can be purchased. Like I said the switch was bought new, hate to have to trash it. Thank's to you both Bob & Bruce for the info! John

[ADCX Rob]

servoguy

The later model 1122 switches did not require insulating pins. They were made similar to what I am proposing here.

 

It was actually the one year, the first year of 1122 switches that were built that way(and were problematic - for many reasons including the control rails).  The 1122E models made through 1969, and the 5122 type descendants all require insulating pins.

Rob

[lionelsoni]

John, it is a cylindrical piece of iron rod.  Here is a link to the service information for the turnout:  http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=673

[jfitz]

Sara: I'm in same state your in [confusion]. Best book I've seen for our needs is"Wiring Handcook for Ty Trains-Traditional layout wiring" by Ray L. Plummer,Kalmbach Books,$17.95.See www.KalmbachBooks.com.

Well worth the $$

[phillyreading]

Sara, Welcome to the forum.

What is the part number on the "so called" 022 switch?  Lionel has made many switches that look like the 022 switch from pre-war & post-war era, however if on the end of the box it has a 5 digit number you have a newer switch and not an 022! The other way to know if it is an 022 switch , does have made in NY stamped on it somewhere? Otherwise you may have a # 5134 or 6-23011.

Lee F.

[Sara]

My lelft hand switch is an O Gauge 31" Path Remote Control Switch 6-14062 made by Lionel in 2005.  The switch itself just has "Lionel Remote Control No. O22 O Gauge Switch.  Anyone else using the same one?

[Sara]

Thanks for your help...I'll order this book today.

[jackiejr1951]

 

Yes I found the white plastic end piece on the coil had melted preventing the rod from moving out completely. I drilled out "cleaned" the melted plastic enough to allow the rod to move properly. But the switch still does not work. I may have damaged the coil or it was damaged when it operated during my improper hook up of the switch. Still wondering if the coil can be replaced ? Where do you buy one and at what cost? Thank's for the come back.