OUTSIDE third rail

[Mr Ron]

I posted an inquiry over on the model railroader site, but it was suggested that this site may be able to offer some answers. My question was: Are there any layouts existing in O or larger utilizing outside (not hi-rail) third rail. This was used way back in the 30's to 50's on O gauge scale. I tried it on HO scale, but it was not successful. With the passing of time and the development of new and better technology, 3rd rail today would be easy to accomplish. I would never use it for steam or diesel layouts; only on electric lines, like the LIRR, Pennsy, NY Central and NY,NH&H or an interurban line.

[rtraincollector]

Need some more knowable members than I but there was at least one engine I believe that back in the 40's was built that used a outside 3rd rail and I want to say it was Lionel. I remember reading about it about a year or so ago on this forum.

infact found this

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/135731/1525770.aspx#1525770

 

[wrmcclellan]

Ron,

If I understand your question correctly - you are looking for a reference on Scale outside 3rd rail per the RRs you give as an example. I personally have not seen anything on this. Most of the O gauge layouts of old that used outside 3rd rail are basically the same as the center 3rd rail toy type. The rail was moved outside for better appearance (2-rail), use of AC motored trains (old DC can moters did not have the torque they do today with better magnets), and to a lessor degree ease of wiring (i.e. reverse loops). Most of the ones I have seen have used either heavy wire, tinplate rail, or HO/S gauge rail for the outside third rail and the old style flexible speedometer cable (mechanical speedos) for the pickup on the loco, tender, and lighted cars. The rail is mounted basically the same way as one sees on real outside third rail electric locos.

The real RRs typically covered the outside third rail in a wood sheath (i.e. NYC) and in many places still do today. Doug M can comment better - but from what I recall, the Chicago El and in my memory, the NYC subways use regular light weight rail for the outside rail with the ends of a section bent down to accept the hanging (gravity contact) pickup shoe.

I would think if this is something you are thinking of modeling, the few layouts I have seen in recent years (there have been a couple of articles in the magazines) have a pretty realistic rendition of the Chicago and NYC subway stype of third rail. The biggest challenge may be a realistic pickup shoe.

Here are a couple of links to outside third rail layouts:

http://www.members.tripod.com/~KnightTime/bayridgemodelrailroadclub.html

http://community-2.webtv.net/nycmodeltransit/NYCModelTransitEL/

 

[lionelsoni]

The Lionel 700E-258 pickup for outside third rail was sold for use on both the 700E and the 763E Hudsons.  The pickup, which did not resemble a prototype third-rail shoe, had two spring-loaded arms projecting forward and backward from a cantilevered bracket, to contact the rail in two places.  It fastened to the same point under the locomotive as one of the center-rail pickups, both of which were removed.  I suspect that it would also fit a 773.  Lionel warned that it was designed for a third rail 1/8-inch higher than the running rails, as contrasted with 3/16-inch, which was apparently also a de-facto standard.

Running a model of a steam locomotive with outside third rail, while not prototypical, was considered less of a compromise with realism than using a center third rail.  The third rail was presumed to be there for electric locomotives, which was prototypical at least for the New York Central and the Baltimore and Ohio.