White Lithium Grease for trains

[overall]

Will white lithium grease work for plastic gears found on some MPC and modern era trains? Will it work for post war steamers with axially mounted motors and gear boxes i.e. Berkshires, turbines etc?

Will white lithium grease harden over time like the old Lionel Lubricat did?

Thanks,

George

[servoguy]

White lithium grease will definitely harden with time. Some months ago there was a big discussion about lubricants. I still recommend 5W-20 engine oil as I know for sure it doesn't harden or get gummy. I have used engine oil for 45 years and never had it get gummy. I had a 2025 in storage for 45 years and it was OK when I ran it again recently. I don't recommend 3 in 1 oil as I have had experience with it getting gummy. I have been oiling the commutators on my locos with 5W-20 with good results. The friction levels are greatly reduced. I have a 2333 that I have run for a year with oil on the commutator. It does not get gummy nor does it interfere with the electrical operation of the commutator. It should virtually eliminate the brush wear. I am always thinking about what happens to an engine when it is stored for a long time. I have good experience with engine oil and bad experience with grease and "light machine oils." Everyone recommends LaBelle oil, but I don't have any experience with it so I don't use it. It is also expensive. One guy recommended synthetic engine oil and I think that would be a good idea. There is still a bit of a question about engine oil and plastic. I don't have an answer for that. Bruce Baker

[TRAINCAT]

I would shy away from using Lithium grease. There are much better modern greases out now. Some use Labelle 106 teflon grease and I used to use it myself. I recently switched over to Lucas Red & Tacky grease. Its in the testing stages but very good so far. Some greases will fling off gears but red and Tacky stays put. Some greases like Lionel's grease that comes in tubes will run off of gears when it gets warm. What ever you use, make sure it is plastic compatible if your using it on nylon type gears.

Roger

[overall]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess the 5W-20 oil would available at someplace like Autozone or Orielly's. THe Lucas stuff would come from a place like Ace Hardware or Lowe's?

 

Thanks,

George

[phillyreading]

Bruce,

Thanks for mentioning about 5W-20 engine oil. You should also be able to buy it at Wal-Mart and other stores that have a good size automotive department.

Lee F.

[arkady]

servoguy

...I still recommend 5W-20 engine oil as I know for sure it doesn't harden or get gummy....

Is that synthetic motor oil, or standard? Some synthetic lubricants don't get along well with some plastics, but I don't know if that's true of synthetic motor oil or not.

[TRAINCAT]

I get Lucas products at automotive stores. In my opinion, I would skip the 5w20.

 

Roger

[servoguy]

IMHO, you should be cautious with the Lucas grease. Unless you have a long history of using it, you don't know what it is going to do over time. Is it going to get hard? Is it going to damage the plastic? My motivation to use 5W-20 engine oil is quite simple: I have test results from using it 45 years ago on a 2025 engine that still showed evidence of the oil after 45 years. It didn't get gummy and it didn't all evaporate. I have never seen a grease that did not get hard after a while. I remember repairing hand mixers back in '58, and when I opened up the gearboxes, the grease was all hard and pushed away from the gears. At that time I was 17 and didn't understand what had happened. The oil had evaporated from the grease leaving the clay behind. I see a lot of dried grease on the wheels of the PW cars I have. I am willing to bet it is a residue from the Lionel Lube that was used to lubricate them or the engines years ago. Most of the PW cars have this residue on them. Bruce Baker

[TRAINCAT]

"IMHO, you should be cautious with the Lucas grease. Unless you have a long history of using it, you don't know what it is going to do over time. Is it going to get hard? Is it going to damage the plastic? "

I know others who use Lucas red grease and it has not become hard or caused any problems. I don't use it on plastic. You can use Labelle for that. That hardened grease you refer to on Post war wheels is not grease at all. It is actually a combination of two different metals mixing and depositing on the wheels. I hope not very many guys decide to try using 5w-20 on the armature faces. Tearing down motors to clean the gunk off is not a lot of fun.

 

Roger

[servoguy]

The 2333 has run a lot of hours over the last year+ and there has been no problem with it at all. Before you tell me it won't work why don't you try it and see what happens? Do it on a loco that is easy to take apart. I have lubed all the commutators on my locos without a problem except for one: The oil will loosen the dirt in the commutator slots and allow it to contaminate the commutator. It is easy to clean off, and doesn't stick or become gummy. It was my mistake since I didn't clean the commutators prior to lubricating them. BTW, I am an electrical engineer with 47 years of experience. One thing I have learned is that what is generally believed to be true is not necessarily true. I would never have expected oiling the commutator to work until I tried it. But then thinking back to 1950, I realized that I probably had gotten oil on the commutators of several engines in the past and had not had a problem with them. Where did you get the information that the crud on the wheels is two metals? That wold be most miraculous. I guarantee you it is something that started as grease. Bruce Baker

[TRAINCAT]

Bruce, I did try other oils a few years ago and every time it ended up with me having to tear down another motor and clean the armature and brushes. I even tried Atlas conductive lube that they recommend for that very thing. Same result, dirtied slow motor. In fact, if you over oil a motor it will run right down the shaft and it will foul the commutator.  If it works for you, great. We have argued with you for months over this. I'm done with it.

 

As for the gunk on wheels not being oil and grease, I spoke with a metalergical engineer who told me that gunk is a result of galvanic reaction between two metals. Maybe a tiny amount of oil could be the binder. When you clean it off, you cannot just wipe it away. You generally have to scrape it off. I never oiled my post war trains when I was a kid,(who did?) not even once, and that gunk still caked up on the wheels.

I clean my tracks almost daily now with denatured alcohol and I still end up with that caked on gunk on the wheels of cars that see constant running. So I tend to agree with the man who told me that. I bet that guys who use Atlas track or Gargraves do not see as much of a buildup on wheels. I still use lionel O guage tin plate. Gunk is constantly building up. I tend to believe the theory now. Fact? Who knows?