I've been following Timboy's progress and new design with great interest. Got to thinking, again (not always a good thing ) If I were to....and I am.....going to plan my -last- next layout, would I consider a "no switch" project. Instead of the sidings, that I now have, which lead into the trackside accessories like the milk platform and dump sites, I would dedicate a single track that would accommodate those features. One advantage, that comes to mind, would be the elimination of possible derailments and rough rides over a switch.
I'd be interested in your views about switches. As always, many thanks.
Switches can be a problem, alright. But, depending on what you want, you are going to need some. I have my accessories on a line as you describe, but wish I had more room to install sidings & uncouplers to allow more freedom to build a consist.
I remember that being a lot of fun as a kid, but didn't get that designed into my present layout very well. Think I am going to add on a 2' or so by 8' for sidings. More switches!!!
wyomingscout
If you are planing a retro 1950's layout with the emphasis on running trains then you'll probably be using less switches, more loops & less landscaping & "layouting." (Remember 1950's switches were expensive then, and layout space was usually temporary & limited). OTOH if your goal is a cover/coverage in CTT then a poll/opinion of others here won't matter much.
A variation of Timboy's thoughts..
In the design phase of my layout after having built five previous ones, I decided not to eliminate them but to see how few I could get away with.. Like anything, if the sky is the limit, it's easy to design a layout. I built a layout that perhaps defies current trends, as it is a high rail tinplate setup. However, I wanted to challenge myself which it sounds like something you are considering. I hindsight I could have eliminated one of the five switches and so what I arrived at was essentially three loops that each had a sort of s curve in them and a very elongated crossover ( more like a siding) between them, The outer loop crosses the inner one by way of a 90 degree crossover to a two track yard. The inner loop has a industrial spur with two industries.Five switches. The third loop is an elevated line for rapid transit. I don't switch the industries so your idea would have suited me, and that would take out three..I go between runs of pre\post war Marx and the current lot of MTH, et al. I have tin accessories \ buildings mixed with modern ones in a hi-rail setting by way of separating them into "neighborhoods" ( I couldn't resist that nearly two foot long Marx freight house ) ..on one end I have antique block signals and the other modern ones..the contrast is enjoyed by visitors to see the trains pass through a modern day landscape into the past of toy trains and return. So I say..go for it..experiment,,try it out as a carpet central for a few weeks..to play with ...thats how I made sure I liked what I configured..
One idea I 'toyed" with (which I should have done, is to make the connection or cross over, a elongated siding by making a left hand switch from the outer, have it cross the inner loop to connect with it after paralleling it by way of a right hand switch. at the center place an isolation section. This could have been the switching spur and eliminate one switch.It could be accessed by both loops. By the way,I cut down the plastic guards of the MTH switches and trimmed the crossover to allow for the deeper flanges of the Marx tinplate..one I get bored with one, I switch over to the other,.The MTH and K line engines are fine by this..
Let us know what you decide and have fun playing with ideas..that as fun for me as three trains running in endless loops..mesmerizing..even relaxing and few derailments unless I put the metal too close to the pedal.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
On my previous layout I learned to make a small yard and have it's own lead long enough to drill the entire industry area on one side of the layout. That kept the outer loop clear for running trains at track speed using the largest available switches in that track.
In O Scale switches are fun for me, but I have to be very careful where I put them.
The Club Railroad where I briefly ran trains had wide open mainlines with occasional switches to add problems and possible derailments. The switches are there to create yards, sidings and run around as well as even Lap sidings to saw trains past one another.
I try to limit the total number of switches on the railroad. I try to give all the track, switches the very best under foundation like... 3/4 inch oak plywood if necessary so that they will be strong and flat. I try to engineer track so that the biggest rigid frame steam engine will be settled approaching and departing a switch. I try to unload the grade before or after a switch in three dimensions so that the train will find the switch smooth.
Finally I cheat on the main a little. All or most of my switches have points that face away from the engine going in the most common direction for that line. I hate switches where the points are facing the engine with the possibility of "Picking" or derailments.
I would rather buy a top dollar switch and make it work flawless than fight with a kit switch that cost 3 dollars.
A long time ago my father built me a small pike and we used the absolute cheapest switch and rail. It worked well enough until I started thinking about operations, kaydee couplers and the like. Now that I build my own layout, I am absolutely anal about switches. They are done right as best as I can do them.
I dont accept substandard performance from switches.
But I will always remember my Pa for doing the very best in terms of wood, track, roadbed and the like despite the low budget for switches and track. I always fondly remember that.
One last thing. O scale is BIG> I expect a little rumble and shaking going on across switches. It's the Diamonds that turn me into a jelly when I have to consider them. Haw!
11th Street(Remember 1950's switches were expensive then, and layout space was usually temporary & limited).
I don't have to remember the Fifties -- that's how it was the last time I visited a train shop.
I think it's up to you based on what you enjoy. The yard for my layout are three wall mounted display shelves as well as two floor types. This is because I don't stereotypically change consists like the real thing. My manifests are drawn up by the variety factor. My own preference is to compromise on the yard and in return I get more real estate which is oddly enough, a lot more prototypical (interesting) anyway..My earlier layouts looked more like like swirling amusement park rides than something my imagination could get a grip on as a facsimile of the real thing, When mixed with tinplate, it's sort of a retro-futuristic depending if you are a kid or an oldster. The bottom line is fun without turning a hobby into an endless chore. I take forever to do things because it's easy to burn out doing fifteen things at once.
Reaching way back, I recall my brother and I making dares to run the O gauge train through the switch (Or two or three) backwards with a full train without derailing.
Wealthy Children counted assets by how many switches they owned so that the friends could combine their own track and contribute a few switches too to make more elaborate railroads that otherwise may be too expensive.
If you can ram a train full speed forwards and backwards and not lose anything or disturb the conductor in the caboose... you have it all.
I hae to make a comment that down in Little Rock yards you are standing in a sea of track and wonder, how in hell does anyone is able to keep the right count of each track 24/7 day and night.
May I suggest this process:
That's the way to make it your layout.
Jon
So many roads, so little time.
To all: A lot of great ideas and "food for thought". I'm still in the planning stage and am 'negotiating' for more space ( you think the Middle East peace conferences are tough..a "piece of cake" in comparison)
Appreciate your input. Keep the posts coming. I'll keep reading. Many thanks.
Just my 2 cents, learning from experience, in everthing I have ever done, I use the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid. My new layout will be incorporating the least number of switches as possible, to avoid potential problems. I like to run my trains and we all know how embarassing it is to have someone over and a malfunction occurs when he brings his kids or grandchildren over to see if they are interested in the hobby. All that the kids remember is that it was broke.
John
The prolem for years was there really wasn't a track system that had reliable switches. FasTrack has changed all that, and with the new Legacy switches building a command equiped railroad just got a whole lot easier. Had I known that Lionel was coming out with the Legacy switches I would have stuck with FasTrack instead of going Atlas. Therefore the next layout sure as tootin' is going to have LOTS and LOTS of switches and will be converted back to FasTrack. Well I may just build an outdoor layout with the Atlas track... bet The Q will blow a few thousand gaskets over that one.
lionroar88 - Tellyawhatimagonnado...you are already pretty "dinged" up, so I wouldn't tell the Q about any proposed track "upgrades". Simply pick up some FasTrack (a section or two at a time), and quietly pull up that nasty old ATLAS track, and put it in a paper bag. Every couple months, we'll pick out a "drop" zone at a predisclosed location along 70... And again, always glad to help.
Switches = operation = fun.
Fife......if you call what Brent is "dinged up," I'd pay money to see what "totally messed up" is. But you have a point......his layout is under construction and she wouldn't notice the change.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
I always valued John Armstrong's concept of Givens and Druthers in planning a layout. Essentially you figure out the parameters of your interests, likes, dislikes and layout space in track planning. Personally, I have few switches - and they are all manual - and all within reach of the front of the layout. Because I am committed to conventional power and want to run multiple trains without setting up blocks, I also made everything electrically isolated or physically unconnected. That is because my layout is on a raised uneven space and I have very basic power connections. So given my weird space, limited abilities and wants I wasn't willing to compromise (running multiple trains, simple electrics), this works for me. Mind you, I also love to redo everything too
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Thanks Doug and all for your continuing responses.
Speaking from (bad) experience gained from our family layout, I would say the best course is the following:
1) Use as few switches on the mainline as practical. Group industries together so that several can share one lead, meaning that only one mainline switch is needed. (Bonus: this is more realistic anyway!)
2) On the mainline, and especially in any hidden or hard-to-reach tracks, use the most expensive, fabulous switches you can find. (For us, this meant Ross.) Sticker-shock is huge, but you will thank yourself later. At least, your foresighted planning means that you won't have to buy many of them.
3) In your yard, on industry sidings, or any other place where trains will run s-l-o-w-l-y AND that you can easily reach, use cheap, busted-up eBay specials. Spend the money you save on a new loco, or on wire and toggles, which you will need for step 4...
4) Actually this is the most important one. DON'T JUST PLAN YOUR TRACKWORK! Plan your electrical and control system.
Failing to do just that is the biggest mistake we made. You are going to have to reach your switches if you want to do anything more complex than simply watching the trains go round and round (not to say that isn't sometimes satisfying in itself...). Sure, there are remote-control switches, but unless you can uncouple cars using only your mind you are going to need to stand right there and play brakeman as well as engineer. This means rigging a way to operate your engine from many different parts of your layout. If you are 100% Command/Legacy then you are set. If not, you have three choices: 1-stop running your Conventional trains that you spent good money on. 2-abandon parts of your layout that you spend good money (and time) on b/c you cannot reach them. 3-rig control panels at different points on your layout so that you can see and enjoy switching operations there. That, or put your transformer on a tether so it can follow you. Or use a system that modulates track voltage remotely (even then, though, you will want to build panels to control operating accessories, uncouplers, etc., in each area).
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