Joey:
Glad that I could help.
Even if you run the can-motored locos with flywheels in conventional mode you'll be amazed at the difference in operation and the reduction in voltage use. Make sure that you have a transformer that starts out at zero volts and you'll be able to have the loco's crawl out of the station and smoothly accelerate to speed.
You might want to check out the threads regarding the use of LED's for headlights - the effect is awesome and offsets the only disadvantage of running at a much lower voltage, the light bulb in the nose is pretty dim. I believe the recommended supplier was Richmond Controls but Timko may be able to do that for you as well.
Mike
I did this a couple years ago with 3 Lionel F-3's. I bought the frames and bodies from e-bay as I wanted to do some kit-bashing. I used the Williams dummy upgrade kit from Western Depot. Yes the hole in the Lionel frame is bigger, I forgot how I shimed it to tighten up the slop but know that it took a while to figure a good way to do it. The problem with the upgrade kit is that you have to call Williams and order the truck sides, couplers, screws, and pilot and ???? to complete the set up. I also used the ERRC sound board to finish it. With all the costs added up for everything came out to about $260 per loco. When you look at it that way it's not a bad price for a F-3. I painted the bodies C&NW colors, they were really trashed when I started, so no real loss to value there, but took alot of time to look right. I'm real proud of how they turned out for a kit bash. But for a conversion just to do it, I don't know that I would but it's your choice. Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Hi Mike....Thanks for your thoughtful response about converting your units and also your two GG-1's...I also have some MPC locos that I want to convert and for me it's all about improving performance and controllability...I'll definitely be getting in touch with Frank..It sounds like you were able to accomplish exactly what I'm looking to accomplish by pulling those Pullmors....
From what I have learned through my travels which I think was also reinforced here is this thread is that the AC can motor is a better performer then the Pullmor motor for pulling power, noise and last but certainly not least TMCC performance...
Like I have mentioned I don't think the units I will be converting have that much collectability to them and I don't want sell them so I think I will follow your lead...
Thanks again,
joey
In reponse to them being too "valuable" to modify I would say that they are not but I might be wrong or someone might have a different opinion....For instance, I have two Preamble Express F3s from the mid 1970's MPC era which I'm going to convert...I personally don't think that these hold that much value...I purchased the New Haven F3 Conventional Classics from the Lionel 2009 catalog which I'm going to convert as well...This one might have some value many many years from now but who knows...And I have a Santa Fe F3 set from the 90's which I want to convert as well...
Like I said I don't think these have much resale value...I just want TMCC and railsound and if they're not valuable units then so be it....Any thoughts?
Hello Bill,
Based on what MikeStein wrote about his conversion and his Williams GG-1 performance versus the Lionel Amtrak version I think I will definitely give this Timko guy a call....Thanks for the info on how to get in contact with him...
I had Frank Timko install William can motors and reverse units in two single-motor MPC locos (an EP-5 and a F3) about six years ago. Since I had already re-painted the units, I was not worried about value, but wanted to improve their performance and the change definitely did that. With a single can motor and flywheel the locos run much quietly and smoothly and pull a heavier load at less volts than they did previously.
When I switched to TMCC, the upgrade was very easy, and the locos performed even better.
The Pullmor motor was fine for its time, but it represents much older technology that (even with TMCC) does not perform as well. I have two GG-1's: a Lionel Kughn-era Amtrak loco with two Pullmore motors, magnetraction, and a traditional e-Unit and a Williams GG-1 (PRR) with two can-motors with flywheels, electronic reverse and a sound unit. The Amtrak unit has stayed on the shelf since I purchased the Williams GG-1 three years ago and I don't see that changing.
If you place a premium on operation over collectability, I would make the change, although you may be able to find some newer Williams engines on sale for less than the cost of the conversion.
Hope this helps!
I posted this same question about 2 years ago and was warned not to do it from a value standpoint. I figured that they were my engines so I could do with them as I pleased and this part is true. However being postwar Western Pacific F3's that are in pretty good shape I decided against it. Realistically I'm not going to run them much anyways. By the time I converted them over, it wouldn't have cost much more to have a nice modern set with all the features that I wanted. I still haven't bought any. Just think about it before you commit to it. Are they valuable and do you really want to modify them in a way you can't change back to? If I ever decide to modify mine, I want to know that I can return them completely to normal if I want to.
Hello Jack
Welcome to the forum. Modern Toy Train Parts has change their phone number, its 567-424-6604. Also Frank Timko makes adapters to install DC motors to your chassis His phone #937-429-1461.
Bill
Thanks Jack....
first they make tmcc for pul-mor motors also. Second i believe you would end up dealing with a different size hole in the frame and I think the hole for the pulmor is bigger. I also believe you would have to repalce the power truck as its a different hookup basicly to my knowelege.
now were to get it try this site he gives a discount on most items including tmcc electronics http://mttponline.com/ email/call him he might be able to help you a bit on this idea. sounds interesting but bet theres more to it than siple changing the motors
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Welcome F3
Jack.
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Hello....I new to this forum and I'm also new to working with the electronics inside model trains and I have question....I want to convert all my older Lionel F3's with Pullmor motors to TMCC and railsounds...I was told that I would not be able to set RPM levels using TMCC if I install the TMCC electronics into locos with Pullmor motors...I was also told that Can motors run more realistically especially at slower speeds and are also maintenance free...Because of these reasons I want to pull all my Pullmor motors and install brand new can motors in all my Locos...
So my questions are:....Would I be able to use the existing frame and powered trucks if I pull a Pullmor and install a can motor?....Would there be any retro-fitting involved or will the can motors hook into the truck just like my existing Pullmor?....Any pros or cons in using the can motor versus the Pullmor motor and visa versa?....I know where to get the electronics for the TMCC/railsounds but were would I find good quality Can motors that are meant to be installed into model trains....Specifically Lionels..And lastly, are there any books out that might help me out with my project?
Thanks....
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