Am I stuck keeping my Marx and Lionel seperate?

[Anonymous]

I'm just starting back into some O gauge since digging out my old train stuff to keep my kids occupied. Im going to make a small multipurpose platform no bigger than 5x7, Id like to have two loops to run two trains and have some switching between them just for some one train fun and variation.
Anyway, my problem is that I have three older Marx trains that the wheel gears go all the way to the end of the flange, this makes the two wheels thick and therefore does not go thru lionel switches (even the new ones). I heard that lionel trains have some issues going thru old marx switches but it still will work, but I dont want to use old material for my new layout. I also have a new lionel train set from about 6 years ago. I want to buy all new track and switches and make everything as 'issue free' as possible. I plan to grow into more lionel trains and accessories in the future.

Summary: Primarily, I want a lionel setup, but yet still want to be able to run my Marx on this same layout as well.

Is there any track/switch vendor that will work with both old marx and lionel?

Do I just have to have an independant loop on the outside just for my marx (avoiding any switches), and then do a lionel layout inside?

Do I just have to suck it up and use some old marx switches if I want to join all the track together?

Appreciate any comments/answers...

-hgable, Pittsburgh PA

[daan]

There is one possibility in this. Use the marx trains on the outer loop and then only with the flanges which give the problem away from the switchfrog, so on the outer rail. If you use only switches inward to the inner loop, the outer rail of the big loop doesn't have anything to do with the switching business and there your marx trains could be safe.
(I don't have marx myself, but it's purely based on what I've heard about it..)

[Anonymous]

[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]

First of all, Welcome to the board!

As far as I can see, Daan may have the best solution. We here in trainland have this problem, even within the same manufacturer. Some of my Lionel stuff won't run on my main line, so I had to dedicate other track for it.

Good luck and I salute you for trying to keep the FUN in model railroading.

[Dave Farquhar]

A postwar Lionel 1121 switch works with Marx and Lionel locomotives equally well. The more common 1122 does not. Still, the 1121 isn't particularly rare or expensive. I understand the desire to use new stuff when possible, but switches are very durable, and a postwar 1121 will usually costs less than the new ones do. (Although it sounds like you may have already spent money on new ones.)

I run Lionels on Marx switches and occasionally they can lose power on them. It's pretty rare but your chances of being able to run them unattended are slim. If you run the locomotive long enough you'll hit the problem. The solution is to insert track pins to lengthen the rails. Examine a Lionel 1121 and compare it to a Marx and you'll see exactly what you need to do.

I hope this helps. I run Lionel and Marx together a lot--I've even made conversion cars so I can run the two as part of the same train. I just put a K-Line truck on one end and a Marx truck on the other.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the welcome :)

Another note, is that even if I use the O lionel switches and just go one direction and stay straight, I might get away with running my Marx on the outside, however there is still a 'guide?' that are past the switchfrog that I might need to hack off if I do this. This 'guide' is about an inch long or so just inside the outside rails, I think it is plastic on regular O22 lionel switches. Dunno if they really serve a truely needed purpose to navigate the switch, but its an option, I guess.

Thanks for the speedy posts, very active forum, glad I joined.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave!
I do have some 1121 switches and understand your post well. I did find that the 1121 worked best, still didnt think they were perfect tho, will try it again tonight to see why I think that.
That will force me to go to O27 gauge then, right?

I have not yet bought any materials yet, still planning, and once this issue gets cleared up, I can make my list up.

[Anonymous]

Sadly, I've regulated a lot of my Marx locos to the display shelf for the same flange problem. These locos only make a appearance on the Christmas layout which I usually make exclusively tinplate with no switches.

[Dave Farquhar]

Yes, you're limited to O27 unless you want to try your hand at building switches. There's someone who sells pamphlets on how to do it (details at http://www.tcamembers.org/articles/operating/marxsw/) but if you want ready-to-run, O27 is pretty much the only game in town.

I say "pretty much" because I just remembered prewar American Flyer O27 track was the larger O gauge profile. AND Flyer had the same thick wheel design as Marx. So if you could find some prewar Flyer switches, you stand a chance of solving all the problems, assuming 1) you can find electric Flyer switches (I've never looked for them, to be honest) and, of course 2) they work. Probably more trouble than you wanted to go to.

And I agree with you, all the good train information on the Web is in forums. I've tried to put stuff up on my personal site as I've learned it, but forums are the best way to go.

[Anonymous]

insert some steel pins in the marx switches(the red markers). This way you can save some switches![#welcome][#welcome]

[lionelsoni]

Marx made two kinds of switches. The black ones with the plastic cover over the switch motor are very well made and can be used with Lionel rolling stock. Jerry's picture is of one of them. The switch motor is low, unlike Lionel O27 switches. It also has an interesting signal light that shows the same color to all directions. This is obviously very useful for seeing how the switch is lined from far away. (The colored filters can easily be interchanged so that the "diverging" path is straight and vice-versa.) They also made these switches in their O34 curvature (15.75-inch radius, rather than 12.5). The only disadvantage is the lack of the anti-derailing feature; but that can easily be added by putting insulated track adjacent to the switch.

If you want to run Marx and Lionel together, I recommend simply going with Marx switches.

[Anonymous]

Well, currently this is what I am going to do after all these great posts. Remember that this is not for any serious permanent layout, just something mainstream to put on plywood, with minimal scenery with easy to get materials, for the kids to play with and perhaps to accomodate an xmas tree also.

Im making a 42" diameter oval to accomodate my mark trains that cant do 27" (my full length boxcars cant do it)

Im making an inner 27" layout for my newer lionel train.

Im going to isolate the inner and outer loop for independant two train control. Also plan to throw a switch to make the whole layout (both loops) act as one track (no isolation).

Gonna go with lionel O27 track

Gonna go with 1121 lionel switches to connect everything up (I already have a couple). The 1121s only hit the 'fat gear' in one direction, and when it does hit it, it is minor and raises the wheel 1/16", which is just a speed bump that shouldnt be an issue (I probably could shave some of the plastic down and fix it completely, but I dont want to ruin an original switch). I like the 1121 switch and the duel switch controllers style and looks.
I could not find any marx switches on ebay or anywhere else that were above 'fair' condition, plus in general, Im making this layout mostly for lionel, but a lionel setup that can put my Marx stuff on.

I was quite surprised that marx remote switches seemed hard to find. Only a couple on ebay, and they were beat.

Thanks for all the great help everyone.

[Dave Farquhar]

I'm glad that helped. Availability of Marx switches on eBay seems to vary from week to week.

I picked up two pair of Marx switches at an estate sale a couple of months ago. One pair was perfect; the other had one switch I had to take apart and lube, but then it worked perfectly. Both pair looked good and would probably grade out at Excellent. The next estate sale I visited also had a pair of switches, but everything was so overpriced I was afraid to ask their price on the switches. I'm pretty sure the last big batch of Marx I saw included switches but the asking price, again, was way too high. $135 on a batch of stuff that was probably worth closer to $40, as I recall.

The most important thing is to find what works for you, know the alternatives, and do what you can at that point in time. Since you're primarily into Lionel, using 1121 switches and lots of 42-inch curves on O27 track is very prudent. I expect you'll find you can run almost anything you want. Also keep in mind you can mix curves. You can do an O42-O27-O42 sequence to get a slightly tigher curve that most trains will still be able to negotiate just fine. I've done that a few places on my layout.

[mersenne6]

To Dave's point about pre-war AF switches. They work very well with both Marx and Lionel for the reasons Dave listed. The only caution is that, because of the way the entire center section pivots (as opposed to just the switch points on the Lionel switches) you do run the risk of bending and/or tearing off the narrow center rail engine roller pickups on these switches. The cure is very simple - get some .020 styrene, take paper and scissors and make a template of the region between the straight and curved region of the center region ( it will look like an elongated "D" laying on its back) and then measure in the width of the geared Marx wheel and cut the template to shape. Use this to scribe the shape into .020 styrene and then use 3/16" styrene stringers to hold the piece in place. The plastic will provide a support for the center roller when it skids off of the center pickup and instead of getting bent it will just roll smoothly back onto the rail as the engine moves further into the switch. This may sound like a lot of work but it isn't. When you are finished you can use the Flyer switches for anything 3 rail that can go through about an 040 curve.

[Anonymous]

I don't know If you mind not having automatic switches, but my two marx engines go through manual lionel 027 switches fine. They usually go for about ten dollars on ebay. They are always for sale.

Angelo

[lionelsoni]

As far as I know, Lionel manual switches are the same as the remote ones with respect to points and flangeways. Angelo, do your Marx locomotives have the problematic fat flanges?