Classic Lionel Trains (O Track)

[servoguy]

Kooljock, Does the dishwasher remove any of the rust? I would think it would make the rust worse, and I don't like the idea of getting water into the ends of the rails. Maybe the dishwasher dry cycle causes the water to evaporate before it has a chance to cause damage. I have taken a file or drill bit and cleaned out the rusty ends of some rails, but that is a bit of work if you have a lot of very rusty track. Bending the rails as I have suggested results in very good connections. Bruce Baker

[willpick]

One of the best places for track plans is at www.thortrains.net  . there are quite a few plans that you may find useful--

as to layout height, anything from 33" to 48" is a good height. I'm in the process of rebuilding a "toy train" layout as an opposite to my "highrail" style layout that runs all my scale stuff. The original legs were only 27" long, I replaced them with legs that raise the tabletop to 36"-- makes it easy to get under to do the wiring--

[Chris77504]

Thanks.  I have decided to go with 40" that is about perfect when I'm sitting on the stools I have.  Plus I have a 4 year old and if sits on the stool he can see it good at that height.  I will make the table legs so I can remove them if I ever need to replace them for a higher table when he gets older.

 Thanks for the input..

[lionelsoni]

That's a very subjective choice.  I use 45 inches because it's the lowest that I can get bookcases, a desk, and a workbench under and still be able to use them.

[Chris77504]

What is a good height for a train table ?  48" ?

[Chris77504]

Thanks John.  I will be posting pics of my track loyout as it progresses.

 Also, in case you did not know, Lionel is releasing the next generation ZW transformer. Looks pretty cool, has meter readouts for voltage, etc.  No price has been determined yet, but I have been told it will probably be in the range of $700.00

 

 

[Hudson#685]

Chris,

   I have been that route with old track and I still use my vintage 50's track around the Christmas tree along with my 1920's Standard gauge track. I learned my lesson the hard way on a layout that I made about 15 years ago and I had a short from old track, worn insulators, but it was up for a while. I also had the problem on the Christmas layout. My old track is not rusty but I would say worn.

As to track plans I have never really looked on the web. I have a "library" of track plans from when I was a kid and I still buy them for new ideas with a mix of old and new.

Your ZW transformers are about the best that there is and I still run mine even with TMCC.

Enjoy the layout and build memories with the young engineer.

John

[Chris77504]

John,

 The track is very rusty and to replace the O27 track is not very expensive so I have to agree with you that if it's too rusty replace it. 

So I will be replacing it.  I have to figure out a train layout for a 4' x 8' so I know what I will be purchasing next.

 I have already dropped off a few of the engines and a 1 of my ZW transformers for work to make sure they are all in working order.  All the steam egins I have were made in the early 50's and have not been ran for over 30 years. 

Does anyone know any good resources on the web to get some track layout ideas/plans?

 

[Hudson#685]

Is it really worth messing with old rusty track? I have had it where the insulators wore/disintegrated and I had to pull up a section. Granted the track was over 50 years old but why mess with it? You have trains that are worth big bucks, we spend money for that special engine, accessory, TMCC, etc, why cheap out on track. I think that it is bad advice to give to someone just because you are CHEAP. Without good track why bother running your trains. Without good connections your layout is useless. That is my opinion, sorry if I don't agree about old track. If it is in good shape use it, but if it is rusty or you hve to change rails, discard it.

  John

[Kooljock1]

Here's what I usually do with old "O" or "O-27" track:

1.  Wait for the wife to go shopping.

2.  Load the track into the dishwasher.

3.  Add Cascade or Kirkland equivalent.

4.  Run.

5. (And this is important!) Empty before wife comes home.

6.  Put track out in the sun on the deck for a day.

7.  Spray with WD-40 and let sit for a week.

8.  Wipe with cloth.

9.  Scotch-Brite railheads.

10. Play.

Jon

[[e-mail]]

Yup I agree with Bruce. Rusted track is not necessarily bad track. Hell, I have painted all my new track to look rusted on the layout. It looks so much better than shinny new tubular. If you can't clean the top of the rails and the engine rollers spark like crazy then I would get more track and apply rust to it if it needsit. A roller the is sparking is driving the Eunit crazy and it may heat up or burn out if you run it for along while with a fireworks show at the rollers.  Have a Texas Special that had developed a coating that caused the rollers to spark hence it burned out the Eunit. Remember rust is good, pitting is not!  O

[lionelsoni]

The tin contributes almost nothing to the conductivity of the track.  Its purpose is to keep the steel from rusting, which blocks the electrical connections between the track and the wheels or pickup rollers.  You can clean track that has lost the tin from its railheads; and it will work fine at first.  But the steel will oxidize quickly, so that you need to clean it again.  You shouldn't need to clean track that still has its tin plating nearly as often.

[servoguy]

The reason I use old track is that I can buy it very cheap. At the local TTOS SP swap meet in Anaheim, there is a guy selling O-31 and O-27 track for 50 cents and 25 cents respectively. He has cleaned the track and it looks good. I have a lot of track that has rust on it, and it works just fine. It also looks more realistic than shiny track. Bruce Baker

[balidas]

The steel will conduct electricity no problem, with or without the tinplate, as long as its clean and free from rust and grease.

The sectons you consider are too rusty for the mailine you can always use for sidings to store unused cars, or use them to simulate abandoned rail lines. There's no need to throw them out. They are still useful.

You could also replace rusted rails with good condition rails from other rusted sections.

[Chris77504]

Servoguy,

So even though the TIN is gone and rusted I can just clean it with a scotchbrite pad and it will work no problem?  I thought the TIN was required to get a good connection.  Alot of them are only slightly rusted but some are too far gone to save.  I just know that all the track that has rusted or oxidized the TIN is completely gone, so I thought I had to replace the track from what I was told by other users.

[balidas]

Chris77504

The engines are a different story.  No rust on them as far as I can see, but I have been told since they have not been running in 30+ years I will need to get them serviced to get them them lubricated, etc before I try to run them, correct?

 Excellent advice.

[servoguy]

Here is a link to a '50s Lionel operating manual: http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm There is probably no reason to throw away the old track you have. I use track that in some cases has holes rusted through it. If yours is only slightly rusted, clean it off with a ScotchBrite pad. Wait until you have it together before you use the ScotchBrite pad as it goes faster that way. It is important that the pins be clean to make a good contact. You can use the ScotchBrite pad to clean them or a wire wheel. When I put a layout together, I bend the rail end where the pins are installed. I bend the center rail to the right and the left rail to the left. This makes a much better contact than squeezing the female end of the track to make a tight fit. Also, you only have to do it once as the bend in the rail is essentially permanent. I have put together a large layout using this method and have very few feeds and the trains maintain nearly constant speed. I used Lionel's method of squeezing the female end to make the hole smaller for almost 50 years with poor results. The bent rail method works very well. It allows the track to be taken apart and reassembled as many times as you want to without bending anything again. If you squeeze the female ends, you will have to do it every time you assemble the track. The bent rail method also allows the track to be assembled and disassembled easily. Bruce Baker

[lionelsoni]

I pasted in a different copy of the same picture.  Maybe this one will work.

[Chris77504]

Bob,

 The picture did not come through on the posting.

I beleive I will have to replace all the track.  As the silver tin looks as if it is pretty much gone.  Alot of the track is rusted and I am told that the track requires the TIN for good electrical transfer.  Also alot of the cars themselves are in decent shape, but the axels and wheels are rusted.  Since the card like box cars etc, do not require electricity I should be able to wire brush the rust off and they should be fine correct?

 The engines are a different story.  No rust on them as far as I can see, but I have been told since they have not been running in 30+ years I will need to get them serviced to get them them lubricated, etc before I try to run them, correct?

[lionelsoni]

Your transformers have 4 terminals marked U.  These are all connected together inside the box and are therefore called the "common" terminals.  Connect one of them to an outside rail.  Depending on which control handle you want to use, connect either A or D to the center rail.

Because your transformer is one of the very largest and can deliver about 15 amperes before its circuit breaker trips, you should use wire heavy enough to carry that amount of current, that is, 14 AWG.  You can find this easily, sold by the foot, at home improvement stores.  You can use either solid or stranded wire.  They are the same electrically; but the stranded is easier to work with.

You may have in your collection a "lockon" that looks something like this:

(Ignore the wire in the picture--it's way too small for your transformer.)  You may not be able to get the 14 AWG wire into the clips on the lockon.  You can use a very short piece of (somewhat) smaller wire to connect between the heavy wire and the lockon.  Or, if you get stranded 14 AWG wire, just put as many strands into the clip as you can cram in.

[Chris77504]

The 2 transformers I have show the following on top of the transformer:

 

115V 60 Cycles 275 Watts Type ZW Transformer

I also need to find out exactly once I get the track and Engines in shape (or replace the track and Engines)

What all is needed to hook them up to get electricity to flow to the track from the transformer.

Any web resources anyone knows of would greatly be appreciated.

I will be making a truck to the closes hobby shop that sells and services Lionel trains next friday.  It's about an hour from my house.  My luck would have it the other that did it closed shop after 30 years just last month!

Is there a good website to order Lionel products and accessories online besides Lionel or Ebay?

[lionelsoni]

Ditto on the Scotchbrite.  No wire brush, no steel wool.

Your trains may seem ancient to you; but they are well within the "modern Lionel" period.  Everything, including the transformer, should be serviceable with very little trouble.  Your track is probably what is called "tubular" track.  That comes it two varieties.  The lighter type is called "O27" and is 7/16 inch high.  The heavier is called "O31", just plain "O", or sometimes "O30" and is 9/16 inch high.  If you buy more, you'll probably want to match what you have.

[sir james I]

Its probably a ZW check the cord, it my need to be relaced. The 1776 is a U36 type engine and if never use the motor will need to be serviced with new grease and oil or it may not run at all. A colorful engine but not rare as it was sold for two years running.

[Anonymous]

the transformer you describe sounds like a Lionel ZW, if so you should take it to a trainstore near you and have it serviced. That is one of the best on the market.

[Chris77504]

what about for a newer power transformer?  The two my father had are very old and If I remember correctly they both went out on him years ago.  These are very big about 12" long with almost a ball shape in the middle with 2 levers one on each side that control the power and direction.

 Are there newer ones I can use to hook up to an O gauge track?

What are other sites that anyone knows of to get good information about older Lionel trains as well?

[balidas]

If nothing has ever been used then you should be good. You can clean the track with scotchbrite and see how that goes, but don't use sandpaper or steelwool. You really only need to make sure the tops of the track are clean, this is where the loco picks up it's power.

[Chris77504]

the tack has some rust on it, it's not real bad.  I was wondering if there is something i could put on it to clean it without wire brushing it.  I do not want to remove the tin at all.  If I have to purchase new track then I will, but my dad had quite a bit of track.

 I will have to dig out the numbers of the cars and the engines.  I have one that he purchased back in 1976 or 77 that is still in the box.  It's a Spirit of 76 U36B Diesel (No 6-1776)

 This engine has never been used, still in the box and in original plastic bag, even though the box has some tears on it.  I know he paid a pretty penny for it when it was new.  From what I recall, I beleive it was a limited edition and not that many were made. 

 Chris

 

[lionelsoni]

If the track is so bad that you would wire-brush it, you should probably just buy new track.  It is tin-plated steel; and the wire brush will remove the tin.

Everything else, including the transformers, can probably be cleaned, re-lubricated, and used.  Post the numbers from the locomotives, cars, and transformers so we can advise you in more detail.

[Chris77504]

I inherited various classic Lionel Trains (O-Track) from my father when he passed away last year.  These trains, tracks, etc have been sitting for quite some time and need to be cleaned.  Tracks have rust, oxidation, etc o them.  Is there anything I can use short of a wire brush wheel to clean them.

 Also he had some very old transformers and engines.  What do I need to do to ensure everything is in working order.  As far as the transformers, is there a newer more modern power transformed I can use to power the trains?

 Chris