Timboy,
Thanx for introducing this perimeter concept. Once I build my grandson's layout, there is another layout I have been contemplating building in Wide/ Standard gauge that would lend itself extremely well to this arrangement.
Timboy, I was going to suggest that it would be a shame for all the work on your current layout to go into the dustbin, and would it be concievable that you could take the current plan, section it up and then cut the layout into various segments that coule then be aligned against the wall, minimizing the amount of "new" layout you would need to build, but then I saw your plan and thought, well, go for it!
Have fun with your trains
Tim, I don't propose that you jog the train with the toggle switch. My idea is that a local toggle switch will transfer the block from the main transformer to a local transformer set to the same voltage. Then you will operate the train in the normal way with the local transformer. The advantage that I see in this is that, instead of having the train powered momentarily (or longer if a stall over the block gap goes unnoticed) by two transformers, it is powered momentarily by neither transformer, just for the time that it takes the switch to snap from one position to the other. That's a very short time, and it avoids a short circuit of any duration.
My preference in circuit breakers is the same kind of thermal breakers that were used originally in the transformers. These are easy to find at auto parts stores. The nice thing about them is that they model the heating of the wiring that they are protecting. So a big overload will trip them quickly, but a modest overload will not. This eliminates nuisance tripping from brief short circuits and the like that are not going to harm the wiring.
Bob Nelson
Tim, first let me say that this situation is problematical in the same way for both 2-rail and 3-rail trains. In the 3-rail case, the outside rails together are typically the common side of the circuit and the center rail the other side, while with 2 rails one rail (either one) can be the common, which American Flyer called the "base", and the other rail the other side of the circuit. In either case, the rail that is not common is powered from different transformer outputs on opposite sides of the rail gap between track blocks.
Now, if both transformer outputs are putting out identical voltages at every instant, which would mean the same RMS voltage, the same waveform, and the same phase, there is no problem. The problem, such as it is, comes from the possibility that something is different between the two voltages. When that happens, a "fault" current will flow through the wheels or pickup rollers between the two sources. This might be very brief if only a single wheel or roller bridges the gap; or it might last for a longer time if wheels or rollers are connected, perhaps from one truck to another, as often is done to reduce flickering in passenger cars and as always is done to some extent for locomotives so that they do not stall going over non-conducting bits of track in turnouts and crossings.
In addition to the fault current, there is a liklihood of creating voltage spikes of hundreds of volts (I've measured them) when the fault current ends, from the collapse of the magnetic field that the fault creates in the transformer core. This is likely to be a burst of spikes, since electrical connections seldom open cleanly.
The fault current causes heating in the layout wiring and in any train wiring tying wheels or pickups together. This is probably not harmful--unless the train stops in neutral over the gap. It is also not harmful if the current is small because the operator has done a good job of matching the voltages. Note that, by design, the voltages are never matched when different transformer settings are used for climbing and descending hills. If the train wiring and the layout wiring is up to carrying a fault current of the same amount as the transformer's circuit breaker's rating, that will also prevent any harm.
As for the voltage spikes, they are something to worry about with modern electronics-intensive trains; but postwar trains are not bothered by them, except to the extent that the arcing that they initiate pits the wheels, rollers, and rails.
A particular situation that seems to come up often is the use of multiple-output transformers by operators who think that they are somehow immune to these problems, when in fact they often have an additional hazard. Postwar Lionel transformers in particular usually have a single circuit breaker in series with the common. This does nothing to stop the kind of fault current that we are concerned with here. If it is too great, the transformer will predictably burn up. I don't remember for sure, but I think that American Flyer may have put dual circuit breakers in theirs. If so, that is commendable.
So how serious a problem is all this? It depends on what kind of trains, how many circuit breakers, how long the fault, how careful and skillful the operator.
I had been thinking about the scheme you outlined and have a counter-proposal for you of a kind of hybrid between that and a more conventional arrangement. How about setting up something like a centralized two-train (or more?) block system, but with a more modest number of additional single transformers located around the room. At each of these local transformers, place a few SPDT switches to allow any of the nearby blocks to be removed from the main buses and transferred to local control. Then you could run each train from one of the central controls, but sieze it after it passes into a local block, thus avoiding its ever crossing between controls. Snap-action toggle switches can easily make the changeover without any train hesitation at all. To facilitate matching speeds (voltage) between the main transformer and the local one, you could wire a lamp between the local transformer's output and the non-common rail of the block. Then you would adjust the local transformer to match before the train arrives by dimming the lamp completely, then flip the switch when the locomotive has crossed into the block, then slow and stop the train to have your way with it.
TimboyGuys: I have a feeling that the sketch I pointed to of my new layout is underwhelming to everyone.
No, I don't think so. We asked for a draft of your plan even though in the initial stages. Looks good and will be interested how it develops. Keep us posted.
Rich
Alton Junction
Bob Keller
I've been practicing Zen for ages. It's when I'm doing something and it's not going right Zen I find someting else to do where I figure the outcome will be positive. It really works. I have trains that my father had when I was a kid and I have restored them because I dont plan to sell them. The Lionel Commodore 264-E red is my favorite. It gets the first run of any new track and it seems to be my faithful friend. A lot of memories follow that train whenever I run it on my layout. Now that's Zen that really works! VBG
Up nuf said, in fact more than enough. You are the one promoting your lifestyle. Just read your original post.So just let it go and post your life saving junk on the appropriate venue.
Just see if your next post is related to trains and not how many heart attacks, gout attacks and other menusia you feel the need to address.
I noticed lately that the price of trains has gone down, I'd say about 10%.. Williams stuff that was going over 2 bills are not even getting a bid or making an offer. Time to buy trains instead of vitamins and Gator Aide. Although GA is wonderful for a thirst when you've been riding for a long time. A beer is better, a shower then run some trains.
Tim,
Although I think you did an outstanding job on your current layout, I can see why you want to rebuild. I have a lot of AF accessories packed away just because I couldn't reach them on my current layout. It is frustrating.
When I first read your initial post and watched that video again of your layout, I was aghast at the thought that you would tear down that layout and start over. I understand your long term view on health and flexibility issues, but it would seem heartbreaking to dismantle such a beautiful and functional layout.
Then, I started to read the responses and the encouragement from others to go for it, and I began to change my mind a little. And, then, finally, I read your follow-up post and realized that you were more than idly thinking about a change. You already seem committed to a new layout.
Let me ask you a few questions. You mentioned that it took 5 years to build your current layout. When did you complete it? If you start a new layout, how long will it be in your estimation before the first train is running once again? You also mentioned that you would begin in August and complete the track work in the Spring (maybe that is the first time trains will be running again unless you can set up temporary track in the meantime). What is your estimated completion date, landscaping and all? Hopefully, not another 5 years but I could see that happening.
You mentioned future updates, posts and photos along the way. Are you prepared now to show us a draft at least of the proposed layout?
Man don't ya just hate it? Someone posts an other than train related post and all of a sudden the original train related post is kicked to the curb. Someone's preaching about his great health has no place here except in casual meantioning.
Anyway I know what you mean about bending and streatching. I have a coupe of arm extenders. I got one when I had my hip surgery. They have soft rubber cups on the ends and work in a pincer movement. I would do a dog bone but I'm one of the fanatics that doesn't believe we should even think of walking on area that could be filled with track and trains. It's just me but I love to fill all available space with three rail O gauge. As someone mentioned in a prior post, "that's what grandchildren are for" and of course great nephews and such. My nephew's son, age 12, came up here two weeks ago all alone without his brother, and we spent three days on my trains. He on the board and me running and getting stuff for him to place on the layout and do the landscaping. It was a precious time for him and I. In fact after the second day, after how many hours on the layout I don't know, we had come upstairs and he sat down on the sofa turned to me and said, "I'm having so much fun uncle Oscar", now that's a polaroid moment if there ever was one.
lionelsoni I think that the important thing for health at my age is to keep my cholesterol level up:
I think that the important thing for health at my age is to keep my cholesterol level up:
Keep your cholesterol level down, not up, under 200. HDL, the good cholesterol, should be up, above 40.
I just got my semi-annual blood test results and found out for the first time that LDL, the bad cholesterol, is not an actual reading but an estimate. It is based on a formula that subtracts HDL from Total Cholesterol and also subtracts Triglytcerides divided by 5. The result is your estimated, not actual, LDL. Bummer.
Also, keep blood pressure below 120 and glucose below 100.
servoguyIf nobody objects, I will post a paper I wrote on health and nutrition. I have been taking vitamins and other supplements for 38 years. I haven't seen a doctor for 29 years, and haven't lost a day of work in over 25 years. I have been sick in bed one day in 25 years. The next day I was fine. Stomach problems, it may have been bad food. I am enjoying being 68 years old and not having any health problems. I get up every morning feeling good. I fly a lot, usually every 2 weeks from LA to Orlando. Recently my 26 year old granddaughter says to me, "You never get sick, do you." She is right, I never do get sick. I intend to enjoy the next 40-100 years in good health. I checked my blood pressure a few days ago: 127/81. I haven't had a pharmaceutical drug in many years. I am still working and intend to work for another 40 years as I enjoy engineering so that it is more like playtime than work. I also enjoy crawling around on the floor like a young kid playing with my trains. You can buy vitamin C and glucosamine at Sams or Costo cheap. You can buy gelatin in the grocery store. You can buy copper and alfalfa at a vitamin store. I buy all my vitamins on line at www.vitanet.net. Takes them about 2 weeks to make a delivery. I have no financial interest in any of this. I do it purely to help people. Bruce Baker
You forgot the usual fine print:
This has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, prevent, or treat any disease.
All the new products with exorbitant claims carry it when they advertise on TV.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I think it would be great for you to post a paper on health and nutrition, but on the health and beauty boards. BTW you should do something about your BP it's actually high.
There I said it, I object to people using these or any other boards for their own personal agenda. You're not selling anything as you said but like a preacher you're selling the idea and you feal like you should do this. But get this I'm 69, my BP is 110/70, I ride a bicycle on the roads of NH for excercise, I like to ride at least two thousand miles from April 1 to Thanksgiving when I hang it up. I don't take vitamins, I weigh 160 pounds and I'm a shrunken 5'8"" tall. I love beer (a lot of beer), I drink vodka martini's before a good steak and unlike you I'm not trying to convince others that I have "broken the code" and I have found the fountain of youth. Besides my way is more fun than yours and cheaper too. Oh yeah, on my 65th birthday I rode 100 miles, on my bicycle, in 6 hours and 45 minutes.. Most vitamins are a waste of money. Exercise is the key and after sitting on a bicycle seat for almost 7 hours, a nice cold Blue Moon or two or three, then the shower.
Lighten up!
O
Tim, I am an advocate of the around-the-walls layout. It gives you much longer runs in whatever size room you have and easier access to all parts of the layout. My version of it concentrates all the complicated trackwork in the corners of the room, with the corner sections connected by perfectly straight track. When I move, as I have already done once and will probably do again in the next few years, all I have to do is adjust the length of those straight sections to fit the new room. The straight sections are not standardized in any way, since they don't need to be interchangeable. For example, one is an 8-track yard in-between two main lines. The others have far fewer tracks. The corners can be as large (and the tangents as short) as you want, as long as you can get them into a future room.
By now, you may know my opinion that it is unsafe to power blocks from different transformer outputs, no matter how popular a scheme it is.
I think that the important thing for health at my age is to keep my cholesterol level up: http://archinte.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/9/1065
As far as the growing older and it getting difficult to "crawl" under the layout that's where the grandkids come in handy.
I like your idea of a "shelf style" layout. I'm going to toss out a couple ideas as well:
> Since you are already thinking two levels why not make the lower level a full perimeter shelf with a lift/dropdown bridge at your point of entry. Just be sure it would be on a straight section, ours is on a curve and it can be a real pain at times.
> Use your original concept, kind of a folded dogbone on the upper level thus creating more areas for scenic diversity. Dogbone areas could be larger towns w/business & industrial areas and the long straights more rural & small one stop light towns along the right-a-way.
Just my
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