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Smoke Unit

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Smoke Unit
Posted by Peaway on Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:02 AM

I put  a new smoke element in and it works but the element gets real red, looks like it is on fire, and the smoke is really puffing. Should the element get real bright red, it is a 5 watt and I am running TMCC?

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Posted by compengsvs@comcast.net on Monday, May 24, 2010 9:15 AM

When running TMCC the transformer is set to maximun and of course the track voltage is very high. There is probably a fix for this problem regardin smioke units. I know that when using TMCC all the lamps that are subjected to this higher voltage should be checked to make sure that they are 18 volt or higher elsewise the smell of plastic could be noticed in the room not long after applying power. Perhaps a small resister in series with the smoke unit? I could tell you if I messed with it but I don't run my TMCC except for one engine a KLine FM Trainmaster. I have changed my switch lamps to higher volts but only because I like the switches to snap from positon to position. Again someone should know the answer to this and I expect someone will be along to help you.  O

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Monday, May 24, 2010 10:14 AM

Did you put in a post war one?  Sounds like you did not get one for command control if you are running 18V.  If too hot, will probably burn out but keep it wet and may do OK.  Most folks are wanting more smoke anyway.

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, May 24, 2010 6:14 PM

Just replacing a lower-voltage lamp with one rated for a higher voltage does not insure that the new lamp will be cooler than the old one.  For example, a number-1445 lamp run at 18 volts puts out 10 percent more heat than a 14.4-volt number-53 lamp run at 18 volts.  A number 1447 puts out 32 percent more than a number 52.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by compengsvs@comcast.net on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:03 PM

Now that doesn't make sense and although I don't have the resistance numbers on the elements I would say that after replacing all my 14 volt lamps with higher voltage lamps they run cooler and don't' melt the lanterns. Again I don't have the values to figure out the I square R for the watts, thence the heat output, so I'm going with my former statement. Replace the bulbs with the lower operating voltage and  you should be OK. Of course it's good to check them after running a while to see if they are hot enough to melt solder.

A number 53 is rated for .10 amps @ 12-16 volts and a 1445 is rated @ .15 amps @ 18 volts. To run a 53 @ 18 volts which is over it's rated voltage is going to make it run hotter. Do you have the specs for running the 53 at 18 volts? I couldn't find any.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:33 PM

The number 53 runs cooler than the 1445 at any voltage.  Lamp ratings are a tradeoff among voltage, current, efficacy, and lifetime.  The ratings of the two lamps are

  #53  14.4 V  120 mA  1728 mW  1    mscp  1000 hr
  #53  18   V  136 mA  2442 mW  2.18 mscp    69 hr
#1445  14.4 V  135 mA  1944 mW   .7  mscp  2000 hr
#1445  18   V  150 mA  2700 mW  1.53 mscp   137 hr

The numbers in italics are values that I calculated using the rules that for incandescent lamps current varies as the .55 power of voltage, light output as the 3.5 power, and lifetime as the -12 power.  The 1445 is actually rated at 14.4 volts and 18 volts; but that doesn't give it any particular advantage over the 53 in terms of power dissipated at either voltage, as you can see.

For screw-based lamps, the number 52 is cooler than the 1447:

  #52  14.4 V  100 mA  1440 mW   .75 mscp  1000 hr
  #52  18   V  113 mA  2035 mW  1.64 mscp    69 hr
#1447  14.4 V  135 mA  1944 mW   .7  mscp  2000 hr
#1447  18   V  150 mA  2700 mW  1.53 mscp   137 hr

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Train-O on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:31 PM
Once again Bob thank you for the safe and informative chart. Ralph
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Posted by compengsvs@comcast.net on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:26 AM

Hey Bob. Good stuff!! Interesting to note the life expectency of the  bulbs when they are operated @ 18 volts as opposed to 14.4,    69 hours is a heartrbeat when you are talking about running trains.  A person would be replacing bulbs all the time. I have one TMCC engine a beautiful FM Virginian and I remember the first time I ran it with the throttle set to max. I toasted  4 or 5 lanterns on my  022 switches. I replaced them with 2445 24Volt lamps and now there is not smell of plastic when I run TMCC.  And because they are being  used at less then their suggested operating voltage they should have a long life. It's been over seven years and I have yet to replace a lamp so now it's not an issue.  O

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:05 PM

Notice that the lifetime of a 1445 or 1447 operated at 18 volts is only 2 heartbeats.  They're not good choices for that voltage, in more ways than one.

These 2432, 2433, 2445, and 2447 lamps are curious things.  They are often listed with a "-300" suffix, as if they were Lionel parts, even though they would be parts from O27 streamliners with those numbers.  Nor are their numbers listed in any miniature-lamp catalogs that I know.  They are sold only by Lionel-parts dealers and described as 24-volt replacements for 18-volt G-4 1/2 lamps 432 and 433 and G-3 1/2 lamps 1445 and 1447.  (The inspiration for the 24xx numbers is obvious.)  They may very well draw less current than those lamps; but there seems to be no way to know for sure, since I have never seen a current specification for any of them.  Without a specification, the fact that one vender's 24-whatever proves to be cooler is no guarantee that the next vender's--or even the next purchase from the same guy--will not be hotter.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by compengsvs@comcast.net on Friday, May 28, 2010 7:13 AM

Yup, it's a coin toss for sure but all I can say is they don't cause the plastic to melt. I bought them, you guessed it, from a Lionel parts dealer probably Olsen's Toy Train Parts, or Smitty's Toy Train Parts some time ago. There are no markings on them to designate where from or who built them. They are not listed in the Lionel Repair book so their actual specs are up in the air, so to speak. Howerer, that being said, they seem to work fine and as I said in a previous post I have yet to replace one after quite a few years so that's enough certification for me. Oscar

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