Hey all!
I just purchased a set F3 A units Powered & dummy. I consider myself really lucky to get them. I want to go through them completly before even applying power. The shells seem to be mostly complete. Porthole glass is missing, and the screen is missing from the vents on one of them, probably more, but I will not have them till tomorrow. Looking for any suggestions. Also where may be a place to find parts, decals, correct paint colors... etc.
One other question, do these forums have a "For Sale' area?
Thanks again guys.. Great forums here!!
One of the better places to get Lionel parts is Madison Hardware. Or you can look in the back of the current CTT mag. If it is a screen maybe you can use some aluminum screen from a window and paint it to match. Sometimes the little detail parts, like glass windows, are the most difficult to obtain.
With each railroad it depends on what time frame you are going with. A couple of examples are the Pennsy had both Tuscan Red and Brunswick Green versions of an engine and the Santa Fe had differant paint versions of an F unit.
Lee F.
Oops.. I should have mentioned they are Santa Fe... red/silver, yellow decals and pinstriping. From what I can find in terms of age, it looks like they are 48-50 or so.. I am told this is the time period for the screened vents. Thanks for the Aluminum screen idea... I thought the plastic porthole glass might be a bit hard to aquire. The shell will need restoring, as they are pretty beat up...mostly worn off paint, and scratches. I will post some pics when I get them tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks!
Igy569Porthole glass is missing,
Hi, & welcome to the forum. There is a new set of F3 portholes on sale on ebay.
wyomingscout
Sounds like they are post war engines. Santa Fe had a few versions in paint schemes; the Super Chief, the War Bonnet and the one for the El Capitan passenger train, along with a couple of freight versions.
I have a three unit set of F-7's by Williams that have the El Capitan set of passenger cars.
Thanks for the tip on the portholes. I bought 'em. (Figured I should just get them while I had the chance) Same seller is listing motor brushes, according the the service sheets on Olsenstoy its the same part number (622-121) but they are slotted, but the ones in the diagram look like they have the stepped part at the top, using the coiled spring. Does it really matter?
I will post pictures of the locos tomorrow, as I do not know the difference.. I only know they are Santa Fe red & silver, yellow trim.
quite: "One of the better places to get Lionel parts is Madison Hardware. Or you can look in the back of the current CTT mag. If it is a screen maybe you can use some aluminum screen from a window and paint it to match. Sometimes the little detail parts, like glass windows, are the most difficult to obtain."
Madison Hardware went out of business many years ago. F3 post war parts are actually very easy to find, both on Ebay and from vendors. Check with www.ttender.com (Jeff Kane). You can call Chuck Sartor at Mizells Trains in denver. East Coast Trains has postwar parts.
Roger
I WISH I had a local train shop. I live in the boonies....
I got the set today.. it turns out they are 2333 F3 units!! Shells are in better shape than I thought, no breaks, windshields are intact. All the horns, lenses and handles are where they should be. The motors are all gunked up, so I have already unsoldered all the wires, and taken the things apart, lots of old sticky grease. E-unit works fine, but the horn relay is not looking good (rust and corrosion). Prolly going to have to replace it. I had to peen the rivets that hold the motors together, as they were loose. Needs new collector rollers, I ordered a set of brushes. I will order up the horn relay and the rollers as soon as I have a few bucks...
Am I understanding correctly that the 2333 is from 1948-49? I got the pair for a really good price.
Here is a good online resource I've used to learn about my old Lionel trains:
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionelident.htm
Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains is a good resource too. Since it sounds like you are handy and repairing your own trains, it might be a good investment.
Yes, 1948-49. You're going by the number boards, right, not the casting number?
Bob Nelson
Yup. The number boards are marked 2333. For that matter, so is the casting on the bottom of the loco frame. I think I may have fixed the horn relay, the e-unit does seem to be working for now, but one of those nice skinny little wires on it is corroded, and I am not sure how long it is likely to last, Those e-units are not cheap, These have not been run in a long time. The dummy unit will barely roll because the trucks are so sticky!! I have one truck and motor unit all cleaned up and reassembled so far... I like these older ones with no electronics...
As promised, here are a few pictures of what I am up to. Any information as to what paint I can use to touch up the red and silver. Just want to touch up some of the rub marks and scratches.
This is the dummy unit
The power unit shell
Thanks again all!!
I've not purchased paint from this company, but heard it was a good source:
http://www.trainenamel.com/
I've seen their ads in CTT.
Hi!
Yup, Lionel Lines, and Made by Lionel are rubber stamped, and there is indeed and "X" cut in to the inside roof, at the back in both. I used the portholes available, cause I already bought them, they fit, and the look good. It was really stubborn, but I have it running pretty nicely, and have kept it with all the original parts, For the time being, I have left the shells alone and original.
Congratulations on obtaining one of the harder to find F3 pairs.
I would think long before applying touchup paint to them. the earliset 2333s used a different plastic in the injection process. It is black and it has a "greasy" feel to it. Due to this both the SF and the NYC are most often found with a good ammount of paint loss due to flaking. Yours ahve a good ammount of the original paint still adhearing to the shells.
I've got the same, new to me in 1949. Still excellent condition. Why the scratched in X?
Hielsie
it has been postulated over the years that the scratched "X" was a mark made by quality control after the numerous steps required to paint the war bonnet SFs.
It is also one more way to check for counterfiets, either no X on a SF, or an X on some other road name indicating a painted over SF shell.
"It is also one more way to check for counterfiets, either no X on a SF, or an X on some other road name indicating a painted over SF shell."
Sorry but I have to disagree with this. I have an original 1950 NYC f3 AA pair that has been in the family since new and they both have the "X" mark inside the painted shells. It's my understanding they did this up through the early part of 1950 and then stopped.
So anyone with a dual motor, large gm decal 2344 or 2343 unit with wire mesh roof vents that has this quality mark can pretty much say they have an early 1950 and not a late 50' or 1951 f3.
I think there was an article in Classic Toy Trains quite some time ago mentioning the Santa Fe and NYC f3 units and explained this quality control mark and the absence of it by the mid part of 1950.
Yep! That's the CTT issue I was reffering too. Sent an email to Lionel a while back but never received a response. Doesn't hurt so I just sent them another one in hopes that some employee's grandfather worked for them and knows the story behind this mystery. :)
Sry if this post kinda got hijacked and had veered in a different direction.
The 2333 units do not have magnetraction. I recommend you use 5W-20 motor oil for lube and not use grease or any other oil. I have a 45 year history of using motor oil. It does not dry out or get gummy, and it is very cheap. It works well for the gears as well as bearings. I have a 2333 which I had to disassemble to get the stupid grease out of it. It had turned to cement. I used WD-40, brake clean and a screwdriver to remove it. I oiled the loco with 5W-20 motor oil and it runs very smooth. I also oil the commutators in my engines to reduce the friction as the brush friction is the primary source of friction. Oiling the commutator does not interfere with the operation of the commutator.
Bruce Baker
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