Would you Support Lionel Financially?

[Anonymous]

David:

Most people don't think that Microsoft's PC monopoly is all that bad, either. Yet, there's really no innovation left in the PC industry. Even in all of its recent releases, Windows is fundamentally unchanged. There has been no real innovation since Netscape lost the market to IE.

Sure, there will be small players left over, who won't own much market share to offer any real competition. No innovation, no new features, and one control system.

By the way, technically, TMCC doesn't work with DCS; DCS works with TMCC. Since no one knows how to generate DCS commands without the DCS remote, and MTH isn't telling any one, no one except MTH can make anything work with DCS.

Anyway, it's time to wait to see what the judge has to say.

Tony

[Anonymous]

okiechoochoo:

Amen!

BillFromWayne

[okiechoochoo]

I don't support Lionel or MTH. I buy strickly postwar so I really don't care. But I would never send money to Lionel to defend UP such as Tony Lash has suggested. I think he wants Lionel to defend it at Lionels cost then when Mike takes over Lionel the issue will be already over. He wants the public to bear the cost of the defense so Mike can get more.

[FJ and G]

Tony,

I don't necessarily think that a merger between Lionel and MTH would be all that bad. K-Line and Willliams would still be able to compete on the low end; and at the hi-rail end, Atlas, 3rd Rail, and Weaver.

There is a lot of redundancies between Lionel and MTH if you think about it.

Lionmasters; railkings
Fasttrack, Realtrax
Fantasy locomotives and some scale
Similar pricing with Lionel slightly higher
Look-alike locomotives
2 command control systems that work together

They are like the bobsy twins.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I think that we should support Lionel financially.

They are helping out a lot of poor Koreans and Chinese who otherwise would not have jobs, so I would say that they are doing charity work.

Also, I'm sure that Lionel's CEO had no clue that the plans were being stolen and that it was all just a plot by some of the lower-level managers.

Finally, by supporting those who are much more wealthy than us, we promote "trickle-down growth," where this money will trickle back to us and we all will be much better off.

Davd, I'm not sure to whom your obvously sarcastic remarks are addressed. I've never said that Lionel was innocent or that MTH didn't deserve to be paid a fair amount of compensation if Lionel was found guilty. On the other hand, I do not want the Lionel name & assets to be under Mike Wolf's control. It would be like GM & Ford merging -- too much of the market under the control of one entity. Add to that the fact that I don't care for MTH's behavior regarding patenting technologies they didn't invent.

Regarding "Koreans & Chinese who would otherwise be out of work," the world is a different place today than it was even 10 years ago. It's called free trade. Like or not, it's the way things are.

Personally, I'm no fan of the free trade concept and the effect its' had on this country. My job may be outsourced to a third world country one day (there are no plans to do so, but it's the trend in IT jobs these days, and I expect that I'll be training someone in India to do my job one day).

We're all supposed to "retrain" and get new jobs in whatever industry replaces IT in the "new new economy." Personally, if my job goes offshore, I'm going to try my hand at caninet making. I figure all the people getting rich off of the outsourcing will need cabinets & will want them made locally, so it's a line of work that probably isn't going offshore any time soon.

But you never know.

Tony

[FJ and G]

I think that we should support Lionel financially.

They are helping out a lot of poor Koreans and Chinese who otherwise would not have jobs, so I would say that they are doing charity work.

Also, I'm sure that Lionel's CEO had no clue that the plans were being stolen and that it was all just a plot by some of the lower-level managers.

Finally, by supporting those who are much more wealthy than us, we promote "trickle-down growth," where this money will trickle back to us and we all will be much better off.

[Anonymous]

As far as I'm concerned, the only way to support Lionel is by buying their products.

If Lionel is financially strapped & has to declare bankruptcy & be dissolved because of this case, which hasn't even been ruled on by the judge yet, then so be it. I was going to wait a year before deciding whether to go HO or not, but that'll help make my mind up sooner.

You guys who take the attitude "I've got all the trains I want. I don't care what happens to Lionel" are funny. Tell me, how does "I've got all the money & food I need. I don't care if there's millions of other people starving in the world" sound to you?

Not that owning Lionel trains is anything like not having enough to eat. Not nearly. But there are those of us who just got into the hobby & who'd like to have a chance to buy a few things of our own.

Tony

[Anonymous]

HHHMMNNN, would i send money to Lionel without some kind of control, NO. I am purschashing a nice FA-2 ABA MKT set this friday, so they have my support that way. However if there was an independent group set up to fight the UP lawsuit and the DCC lawsuit by MTH, i would send money there, as i feel that most two rails would also. Personally i feel that UP's idea is very shortsighted, and though we are a small comunity, we have money, which makes us larger than our numbers suggest. Bad press is one thing any business never wants, and UP has been taking a hammering over this trademark thing. Right or wrong, most people can see it for what it is, a blatent attempt to grab some money. I have no UP, however i love SP. SO i have avested interest in seeing this defeated. I know that it is just a few cents now, however there is nothing to keep them from raising it in the future. WHat if they decided to say to lionel " hey, your new HO verdanda is very nice, however since it costs so much, we want 20 bucks to licence it" Not completly realistic, however not completly off base either.
AS for other forums, to each his own. I perfer this one and up till a while ago, OGR. Now i primarly stay here, however if i want something a little racier (like the firebox of a K-4, GROWLLLL)[:D] then i might venture over to the other forum.
Bill

[3railguy]

Tony Lash posted the same on the AOL boards. The way I read it is he is suggesting train clubs raise the funds outside of Lionel to finance lawyers to support Lionel in this case. Lionel is the only O gauge manufacturer being charged. However, in his mind, the cause would support all manufacturers and us, the end user. I tend to agree with T Lash's cause. His feelings, and I agree, are if the UP is given a legal free hand in the matter without lawyers defending the collecting community, the fees the UP enacts could be excessive.

Tony Lash is gung ho MTH guy and he is a cool guy. He loves MTH trains like I love Lionel trains. He feels MTH was wronged, and I feel Lionel may be overcharged. Outside of that, I have no personal bones to pick with the guy. I would hate to see the collecting community broken up over a brand loyalists animosity.

As far as the Model Train Journal goes with its occasional sexist posts goes, hey, not every forum is for everybody. It's a great forum and I get a kick out of the postings. They make me LMAO! Something this hobby needs if we expect to get along. If people want to judge our morals because we enjoy this stuff, go right ahead. Nobody really cares.

As far as forum bashing goes, it runs rampid on the OGR forum just like any other forum. We AOL guys take a lot of heat from OGR because of our silly flame wars and name calling. None of us really care. But, hey if people want to engage in a silly flame war and get a kick out of, so be it. The AOL boards are the place to be if that's what a guy enjoys.

[Anonymous]

spodwo:

You didn't offend me. As far as I'm concerned you can voice your opinions here all you want.
After all, that’s what CTT & MTJ forums are noted for.

One point though, you do come across as an apologist for OGR.

BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

If you ever hang around a train club or hobby shop, you'll hear much more risque stuff than anything you'll currently see on www.modeltrainjournal.com Everyone at MTJ gets along and and is respectful of other members opinions. What's wrong with that?

[;)]

[spodwo]

QUOTE: So our site gets bashed when I post a serious topic. You may want to go back and read and throughly understand my topic completely before getting off topic and aiming your barbs at us.

Bill - I am not aiming barbs - you advertise the site here - I went there and those are some of the posts I saw. I also saw a great post on the CB&Q too which was a good read. The site has merits but the other stuff gets in the way of some of the posts. Stictly my opinion and I don't mean to offend you. Also understand I didn't ba***he site as my post stated that "some" there [meaning individuals] that post there...

The other thing I might add is that your serious post has, what I consider, some personal attacks in it by referencing the 4 Horseman, Land sharks, etc. It's how you say it and not what you say.

[Anonymous]

Hey spodwo:

So our site gets bashed when I post a serious topic. You may want to go back and read and throughly understand my topic completely before getting off topic and aiming your barbs at us.

In any event, ours is an unique forum because we are not beholding to any advertiser. Keep that in mind when you notice honest and good topics being arbitrarily deleted from OGR.

As for our content, well sometimes a few may get a little carried, but, hey, that's life. I respect a guy for being honest and sharing what's on his mind even though I may not agree. I'd rather host a forum with opinionated guys than a bunch of tush kissing yes men.

Thanks for posting your comments. At least you have the conviction to share your thoughts.

BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

That means the two boys Ben and Chris have to get parental consent before visiting the MTJ forum.[(-D]

[rlplionel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spodwo
The site in question has some that spend more bashing other sites, talking about fictional sexual aid devices along with cross dressing. And some of the people get very abusive with language for adults only. A lot of sexual double entendre also...

While I don't necessarily agree with your description of the Model Train Journal's site, I do think its important for MTJ to distingui***hemselves from other forums. The differences are what will draw folks in. If its a bit "racier" than other forums, then so be it. There are times when we want different things, so this shouldn't be seen as a problem.

[Anonymous]

Oh boy, sounds like my kind of forum.[:P]

[spodwo]

QUOTE: "Welcome to ModelTrainJournal’s Discussion Forums. Here you can discuss, ask questions or debate anything related to 3-Rail O-Gauge Model Railroading.. "

I went to that site...and I guess I will say this since there seems to be fishing for members here for that site all the time...

The site in question has some that spend more bashing other sites, talking about fictional sexual aid devices along with cross dressing. And some of the people get very abusive with language for adults only. A lot of sexual double entendre also...

??

As far as supporting Lionel? Let UP do what it wants to do. If Lionel choses to ignore UP's threats - that is there decision. $$ should go to a brand neutral organization like TCA/TOS/NMRA. Support Lionel with the purchase of it's products - maybe even UP products, for that matter.

[Anonymous]

The logic is that if Lionel is really a shell, in that it has no physical assets, then contributions to Lionel would help MTH collect on its lawsuit. I guess that's what Lash is saying.

Lionel sold most of it's assets over the past 2 years, (I was told this and have not yet confirmed it) if so, a loan is not going to happen;

Lionel has become a salesforce with overseas design and production of its products that it imports for sale. The many trademarks (the latest catalogue lists 41 trademarks) constitute its only real value; but how do you get a loan using a trademark as collateral? maybe you can I don't know that you can't..

Lionel may want to buy some time by entering an appeal, but if that have nothing to protect then why??

If we all contribute then Lash is right Lionel will have something to give to Wolfe.

Alan

[eZAK]

Yes,
I will still buy Lionel products!
That is my support.

As far as Lash's post goes, I think he is fishing for info.!

[dougdagrump]

For anyone interested in donating to Lionel might I suggest you look at the latest issue of CTT. In the article about the SD 3-rail layout did you see the name Lionel referenced among the contributors?
Besides I just purchased some upgrades for my existing loco's, in my opinion that is sufficient contribution on my part. [|(][:-^]

[Anonymous]

I happen to like Tony but I think he's up to something. No way in hell would he do anything to benefit Lionel. Something ain't kosher here![;)]

I also find it somewhat questionable why this thread hasn't been deleted.[?]

[Anonymous]

Good observations guys. Look over that topic in question. Re-read it a couple of times. Something just isn't right with it. I can't put my finger on it, but for its poster to come out now in support of Lionel is something to ponder.

But what really is crazy are the guys who immediately came forward ready to drink the Kool-Aid. It's unbelievable. Like they tripped over one another in support of Lionel ready to send the checks.

Stay tuned, I'm sure we are going to see more of this "let's send Lionel money" shell game as this story unfolds.

Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

HO HO HO HA HA HA HEE HEE HEE

Where was Lionel when I needed to buy school supplies and books for college? There was no Lionel fund! And like you guys have already said, I DO support Lionel by buying their products.

Those suckers that support raising money for Lionel must be brain-dead, but then again, look at Allan Miller's book! It was as useful as sending money to Lionel would be if you get my point. BTW, anyone see the racial slur on the cover of Miller's book? It's on a billboard. Take a look.

[phatkat64]

Hi Bill,

Congratulations and kudos for not only stiitng in your armchair, but doing something very pro active and just good!!!!!

To those few who haven't been there yet (I, being one before today!), I'm referring to the Model Train Journal Forum! Nice Place!!!

I'm going to quote you, Bill, because it sums it up best....

"Welcome to ModelTrainJournal’s Discussion Forums. Here you can discuss, ask questions or debate anything related to 3-Rail O-Gauge Model Railroading.

Our goal is to offer a source of interactive information you can rely upon to separate hype and fluf from reality.

We are opinionated, and unlike some other sources, we don’t sit on the fence, or exhibit the most annoying habit of being suck-ups to advertisers. So we won’t pull your post or delete a thread just because you did not post a glowing comment on a product. Our allegiance is to you, the visitors to our site. "

Thanks for being part of the solution!!!!!![8D][:D][:)]

.....I just joined your forum!

[Anonymous]

Marty:
I hear ya. I buy Lionel too, not as much as I used to. There is just too much tempting stuff being made by other makers today. I spend only a few hundred dollars a year on Lionel, so I guess I am supporting them in that manner.

But hell will freeze over before I would consider sending them a check 'on account.' After all Lionel is so money hungry, I understand that one has to pay a fee to have their or their kids picture taken with the "Lionel Lion" at the Visitors Center, In Michigan. And that stinks. But I don't expect too much in the way of creative customer friendly relationships from a company like Lionel that is run by the dreaded American Corporate "Pointy Headed" men.

If anything, Lionel should have supported us collectors with some kind of nice gesture such as giving us a certificate or some sort of recognition for being long time Lionel Collectors. I mean I can prove that I got my first Lionels in 1949 and have been hooked on them since. Like I said in a previous thread, if Lionel were to shutter their doors tomorrow,I would still have enough trains to keep me happy and busy until the Grime Reaper comes knocking at my door.

Bill


www.modeltrainjournal.com

[MartyE]

I already do, I buy their products...then again I supported the MTH lawsuit against Lionel too by buying their products...Damn Bill now I don't know what color underwear to put on...[:D]

[nblum]

A legal defense fund run by an independent third party like the NMRA or an industrial trade group is a fine idea. The UP is trying to stick it to the model railroad industry big time, and I like the opportunity of sticking it back a little bit to predatory corporations.

[Anonymous]

That's one of the dumbest threads ever on the OGR forum and Rich allows it to stay. Go figure! I guess it depends on who the author is, if you know what I mean.

As for Lionel, I hope they recover from these recent troubles and continue to be the leading O gauge manufacturer. I'm also sick and tired of reading all of these lawsuit threads.

[Anonymous]

Would you guys ever entertain the thought of supporting Lionel Financially? You know, like sending them money to help in their pending lawsuit with Union Pacific?

A topic appeared on the OGR forum with the concept of supporting Lionel Financially.
www.ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=300101019

I personally think the topic is well off base and is not sincere. Here's my take on it:

I almost fell out of my chair with laughter when I read the ‘put your money where your mouth is’
thread on that other forum. Give me a break. Here’s MTH’s greatest supporter asking us to
contribute financially to Lionel in support of their future legal challenges from the Union Pacific
concerning the UP’s royalty and licensing fees.

Already, an enthusiastic group of the Four Horsemen’s Honchos are lined up check books in hand waiting for the word to write the checks.

Are these the same guys who bitched and moaned and were ready to jump off the Berkshire
when the Four Horsemen first tooted the infamous $18 (pay to play) forum fee?

I think those in support of this post have been taken! What’s going on behind the scenes here is that a few Land Sharks (disguised as good guys) already smell Lionel’s fiscal blood and have begun circling the victim. What remains to be told is how the victim will be divided up and who exactly new players will be.



BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com