So Whats Up?
Is Lionel just not going to have a catalog this year. Its March 2nd so obviously something is up that I havent been told about. Can anyone explain why they havent even put up the countdown for their 2010 catalog yet?
Cheese
Nick! :)
Cheese,This isn't anything new... the catalogs typically come out around the time of the York shows.
I may be wrong but my recollection is that the Lionel Catalog comes out way before York, around the time of Toy Fair. The MTH Catalog usually comes out at the time of York.
They wanted to release both catalogs at once: March 16th.
Jon
I have the 2010 mth catalog
Think kooljock was talking about Lionel and k-line by Lionel being released together
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Kind of along this same line, but I recall Jerry Calabrese saying that the times of the big catalog offering vast number of new items (in which many will never be made) are about over. They were planning on streamlining things to show what they actually were planning on producing. Also, having fewer new items each year. I am not sure when that plan was going into effect, but in a way, it would be nice to have product with a high chance of actually getting it verses putting a deposit down on something that never gets produced.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
I agee Dennis "less is more " !!! also its time this China deal ends ,quality is down across the board, product matl. is suspect, its time to bring back manufacturing back to the USA. I dont see any dollar savings when you look at current prices. lets go Linoel be a LEADER and make it happen. !! John
Trainfan,They put the countdown up about 48 - 72 hours prior to the catalog release. Just be patient.... good things come to those that wait.NHrr... let it rest. The companies will do what THEY deam is best for their companies, not what someone on the internet feels is best. Would we love for everything to be made in The USA? Sure. Is it going to happen? Not in a million years.
I heard two rumors,
1. 2010 catalog will be out next weekend March 20 something.
2. 2010 catalog will be out right before YORK meet in APRIL.
So guyz flip a coin?
laz57
Actually the MTH catalog and the Lionel catalog are on different cycles. MTH 2010 Vol 1 came out last Oct whereas Lionels 2009 Vol 2 came out about the same time period. The next MTH catalog released in April will be 2010 Vol 2 whereas the next Lionel catalog at the end of Mar will be 2010 vol 1.
Bill T.
How about somethin new for a change, I'm a big fan of the lionmaster series! Got tired of waiting for a lionmaster y6b or allegheny so I bought railking! Redoing challengers every3 years is not very exciting.
Lionel sold their tinplate rights, how about MTH sharing the dcs so legacy can operate it??????
1. Lionel did not SELL their tinplate rights, they are LEASING their name on tinplate items to MTH. That means that the more MTH sells, the more Lionel makes, with no investment in tooling.
2. I spoke with someone at Lionel for around a 1/2 hour this week. He said to expect the catalogs on or around the 29th. That's both the Ready to Run catalog and the Signature catalog.
3. I forgot to ask what was up with K-Line.
I stand corrected , but lets face lt, lionel tmcc is everywhere mth dcs is only mth dcs. I would be far more incline to buy more mth locos if I could access dcs through legacy!
This reminds me of computer technology....... IBM had the big idea and wanted to keep it to itself. Clones came around and took the lion's share of the market. I believe that Lionel's generosity with their technology will pay them back in spades later, because sharing the technology promotes it. Every one of us will benefit from that gesture.
The BNSF Whale Scene Bathtub Gondolas are very appealing. It would be nice to have three more cars for the BN/BNSF unit coal train.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Concrete coaling tower !
NS heritage schemes .
I believe that Lionel's generosity with their technology will pay them back in spades later, because sharing the technology promotes it. Every one of us will benefit from that gesture.
I don't believe Lionel is sharing the Legacy Technology and now that the TMCC controller and Command base has been terminated per other postings hard to say how much longer the command and sound chips will be manufactured.
The fact remains that all TMCC locos ever made by Lionel, K-Line, Weaver, 3rd Rail and Atlas will continue to be operable by the newer Legacy system. It is totally backwards and forwards compatible. If any of these vendors wants to upgrade their TMCC locos in the future they can spend the money to do so on their own dime. Lionel is amortizing the development expense of Legacy. I'm guessing Lionel will continue to license their TMCC technology to others while they are not selling it themselves. Since the boards are made by a third party, as long as the third party is willing to make them, Atlas, Weaver, etc. will probably have access to them. It's in Lionel's best interest to allow this as it will lead to additional sales of Legacy command sets/equipment. It's certainly possible that Lionel will discontinue their licenses for TMCC/RS to other importers, but I think it's unlikely and not in their best interest long term. None of us know the terms of those licenses, and Lionel may not be able to deny such licensing, or may be vulnerable to legal action should they do so. I don't think Lionel loses many sales to Weaver, 3rd Rail and Atlas in any case as those makers are focused on scale model railroading, and Lionel is still largely a toy train company.
One additional issue. Those with DCS who want to operate TMCC locos in the future will not be able to purchase a 50-60 dollar TMCC command base. They will need to purchase a $300 Legacy system. Lionel does not and will not sell the command base for Legacy separately. So this will work strongly against MTH convincing buyers that DCS is in any way a "universal system" which it, of course never was. But it was possible to cheaply access TMCC locos because Lionel's equipment was so much less expensive than a TIU/DCS handheld. That set of illusions is now gone with the disappearance of the separate sale TMCC command base from the catalog.
On the other hand, MTH has painted themselves into a corner. While DCS can control basic Legacy functions, in the future, this will be fewer and fewer of the total functions available. The only reason to buy DCS is to control PS2 locos. They are providing, unwittingly, the reason for many, like me, to avoid buying PS2 or to remain conventional. There is nothing absolutely essential to my enjoyment of the hobby that requires an MTH loco, much less DCS and PS2, which I consider difficult to implement and less reliable systems than TMCC/Legacy. If you look at the kind of advertising MTH is doing in CTT and OGRR, their need to keep their prices low and their modest sales due to their odd ball technology have marginalized them to a degree not seen since the mid-1990s. Opening up their PS2 technology, getting rid of the crappy internal battery design and improving their speakers in the locos would go a long way to interesting hobbyists in using MTH equipment. They are slowly shrinking into another niche player, like Atlas in this three rail industry, IMO. Through their own choices, one might add, not through any subterfuge by their competitors as they have frequently charged in the past.
Neil,
I certainly respect your opinion, and your perspective on possible Lionel strategies and their command systems seems well thought out, and quite reasonable.
If I were to share similar experiences as you, I might feel the same way regarding MTH and the DCS systems. (Meaning, having a continuous involvement with the Hobby from post war thru the advent and development to today's products. I did have a 15 year hiatius where I missed a lot of that. After my involvement with the conventional products, then renewed involvement AFTER the introduction of TMCC and PS2.) I have had the advantage of being able to evaluate the command systems with a much less biased opinion.
Of course the primary difference IMO, is "bidirectional vs single direction communication". Comparing TMCC and PS2 is an unfair comparison IMO. Its more like comparing a vehicle produced in the 40's or 50's to one of the 70's or 80's. Not a real comparison. TMCC is simple and effective, a definite breakthrough in technology. Hugely advantageous to conventional. But, not of the same generation as PS2. (DCS having a LCD display, (biggest advantage), and a multitude of additional features afforded by the "bidirectional communication", but you know all that.
The biggest advantage of Legacy (again IMO) was the visual display, TMCC without blinders! The other features made possible are very important as well, (upgradable via a chip, much greater engine control, and possible future enhancements that havn't been revealed.) It is unfortunate that "bidirectional" wasn't achievable. (Patent and legal issues?) But, that capability would have even afforded more options.
I still enjoy the benefits of each, but don't feel MTH has "painted themselves in a corner" quite the opposite.
As many people do, the tendency of incorporating the "Business Strategy" in the command system evaluation of the system itself, really "fogs" up the true comparison.
I have often thought IF you were not quite so biased, it would be interesting to see your comments. (AND I CERTAINLY DO NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN THAT TO BE A DEROGATORY STATEMENT!) I too have my "biases", and I did not own any PS1's that were not forward compatible. I am ALSO thrilled that I can upgrade my older conventional to "TMCC" capable. Also, interesting to note that the most expensive engines on my layout are both Lionel, (one TMCC, and one Legacy.)
Finally, I am extremely thankful that both companies exist, because I feel WE the CONSUMERS are the beneficiaries ! And it will be a sad day when EITHER Lionel or MTH shuts down, for WE will be the losers.
Don
"And it will be a sad day when EITHER Lionel or MTH shuts down, for WE will be the losers."
On this we are in agreement. I would like to see them work more collaboratively in the interests of the consumer, but this is unlikely anytime soon.
Howdy..... from sunny Florida.
Hey Neil,
I'm a newbee here and also into the hobby (One of those guys furfiling their childhood dreams). Having done a little reading in the owner's manuals, they say that TMCC runs on 27.255 Mhz. Legacy, on the other hand runs on 2.4 Ghz. (Correct me if I'm wrong) That difference in operating frequencies would make them incompatible. Lionel made them compatible by creating a frequency modulator (Power Master Bridge), in order for the two to communicate. I have both TMCC and Legacy locomotives and they work exceptionally well with the "Bridge" installed.
I can understand why some guys prefer "Conventional" operation - it either works or it does'nt. The electronics have allowed us to multi-task the layouts and make them seem more realistic - and also more problematic (Like chewing gum and walking straight at the same time). Wireless technology is a great concept, but there are too many factors that make it unpredictable (Interference from other electronic signals, magnetic bleed from strong sources, weather, ect.).
Lionel, in their infinite wisdom; added a switch to the locos that would revert them back to were they came from - Conventional operation, in case of electronic melt-down. If there are no repair parts available in the future, you will be able to run your $500.00 investment as a $150.00 conventional.
Don't get me wrong - I love technology! I would have to plow the fields with Oxen, if we did not have it.
Later - Juan.
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