lionel or mth locomotives give your thought
oh yea lets here it
Mine are.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
whats wrong with k line
williams is the best or no
Since you want to go there, here is my OPINION.
Lionel and MTH both make some fine looking pieces. I think Lionel would not have been pushed to the level they are at (at least not as fast) if MTH didn't give some stiff competition. They are both good for each other and for us. Personally, I am Lionel Legacy/TMCC only in regard to command control. I did wire my layout so DCS could easily be added later. I run my MTH engines without command. I say this so you understand both my bias and the opinion given. A number of MTH's engines and some of Lionel's are stump pullers. From what I have seen and heard, Legacy is two steps above the latest Proto 2. For me, it is great, but as mentioned above, I don't run in DCS. Some folks, like Don Baker run TMCC engines off their DCS system and have great results. Does mean some of the latest Legacy features are not included, but they are quite happy with what they do have. I also like Atlas engines that have TMCC installed. They are very well detailed and have a good track record for running.
All manufacturers have had some issues with quality control and end users having to send product back for warranty. With more advanced bells and whistles, you can expect more issues to face. In the end, I believe both MTH and Lionel are very good. Because of my bias of Legacy/TMCC, I am more inclined to purchase Lionel or compatible engines to TMCC.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Wow! You're asking for it!
This depends on what YOU want your engines to do!
Conventional, TMCC or DCS
No sounds, ok sounds or great sounds
You like old engines or new engines
Do you want disposable engines or engines you will be able to obtain parts for in 5, 10, 50 years
Or do like I have done, a little of each. I have prewar, postwar, PS1 &TMCC!
Postwar Lionel. Especially the 50's.
>
IMHO, anything that I put on the track that runs.
Jeff, as others have said, it really depends upon:
- What you are looking for operationally speaking (conventional, TMCC, DCS control).
- How much money you want to spend and if you can wait for either sales or used items.
- What size range you want: full scale, semi-scale, or more towards the 027 side.
Since you have already indicated in a prior post that you use 027 track and have some 027 sized and semi-scale traditionally sized locos, there's a starting point unless you are going to change everything.
Dollar for dollar, Williams and Williams by Bachmann is a good buy when compared to similiar brand new Lionel items, unless you are seeking Lionel Railsounds and or TMCC. Solid frames, die cast truck sides, fuel tank and couplers. A larger vertically mounted DC can motor, metal gears and with smooth gearing at that... very quiet, smooth runners. They'll be right at home with your postwar Lionel.
The older MTH stuff under the Railking line has now gone mostly to the Rugged Rails line. I like the Rugged Rails stuff. Problem is MTH has been cancelling most of the Rugged Rails locos that are separate sale cataloged. Some go into train sets, but those confusingly are under the Railking line. The Rugged Rails cars have all been made if they've been cataloged. Some Rugged Rails locos are available with horn or whitle only and they are nice locos: Semi-scale (with the RR F-3 leaning towards the 027-side in length), larger vertically mounted DC can motors with die cast couplers, fuel tank and truck sides. The rolling stock is nicely decorated, though the trucks don't roll as nicely as die cast Lionel, Industrial Rail or K-Line trucks, though they couple very well.
K-Line is a mixed bag as somewhat indicated above. Actually the plastic trucks can be good, but you never know whether you'll get good ones or ones that don't open and close so well. The later made K-Line cars with plastic trucks seem to be the best. The K-Line "Classic" series have sprung die cast trucks, though they need to be slammed sometimes to close. The trucks on the "Train-19" K-Line cars are the nicest they ever made and are amoung the best out there. I believe RMT is now using the later "Train-19" trucks. Note that some of the "Classic" cars are scale sized. The boxes usually say this, and if you are interested, there's a way to detemine what's what via the K-Line numbering system.
I like the K-Line basic locos. Yes, they have smaller DC can motors mounted in the trucks. But there are two motors. Removing 2 of the 4 traction tires will help reduce the inherent "growl" noise all these kinds of locos make (including similar Lionel types) without reducing pulling power too much. Running these locos with a traditional Lionel transformer with a minimal 6 volts to the track will make it imposssible to run them slowly. The 1033 and KW with their optional zero voltage starting posts are ideal for these K-Line locos: the S-2, MP-15, Alco FA and the Budd Car (RMT is currently making an improved version of this K-Line loco called "The Buddy" and is very nice - much better operating loco than the RMT Beep). The K-Line S-2 and Alco FA look right at home on an 027-scaled layout. And they are bargain priced when compared to other items.
If you don't mind doing some tinkering, the K-Line locos are more than fine. I have some going on 20 years old and are still running with all original motors and gear parts. There are many nicer Lionel and MTH locos that cannot make the same claim.
The Industrial Rail rolling stock is bargain priced when compared to many others. BUT there is a SERIOUS design flaw with the couplers that will cause them to bind and derail when backing up a train on 027 curves. Atlas has not corrected this, but this flaw can also be fixed by the handy hobbiest. The Atlas Industrial Rail steamer is smallish in size, even by 027 standards, but a repectable runner for the money and smokes much better than a similar priced Lionel, Williams or K-Line steamer. MTH steamers smoke the best by far bar none, but it can be too much for the tastes of some.
There's also Lionel MPC stuff, most of which is still a bargain these days - and for the vast majority, American made too. There are some differences between postwar and MPC quality-wise, like plastic gears on the MPC locos. But I have MPC locos that are now almost 40 years old and they are still running - but I take good care of them too. The MPC decoration and paint is far superior to anything postwar.
So there's a nut-shell summary. Everyone has differing tastes. I like off-board sound so I don't mind the K-Line locos - they suit me perfectly. But the more features you want, basically the more you will pay. And it's a good idea to bear in mind that many of the newer train locos and cars - specially scale sized stuff - do not have many parts available and probably never will. The production runs are too small to justify making parts. And that's not just my opinion... that's been said to me by some of the biggest and most respected parts dealers.
The older semi-scale locos by K-Line sold in such quantities that parts are around or used items to cob for parts. Same goes for postwar and MPC era Lionel: virtually all parts are available either as original or reproductions. And again, for the few parts never made for separate sale, so many of these trains got made, that beaters can be gotten to strip for parts. I can't speak for all MTH parts, but I know the couple of times I have inquired with MTH for parts, I was told the parts would likely not be available from them and I would need to buy a duplicate to obtain parts. But that's not just MTH... that goes for Lionel too.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
Fortunately, a hard-core choice of "one or the other" does NOT have to be made. Just as in children, each one is different, and you DO NOT have to make a choice of one over the other, they can co-exsist.
And since this whole topic deals with a hobby, why make it more difficult than it need be. The end result is it typically ends up a financial question or at least a question of priority. Since so many facets of interest are available, I dont think having to make a solitary determination of ONE aspect is correct. The person who has shelves of engines, rolling stock and other items, and never runs any of them. But just enjoys admiring his collection, is just as rewarding as the person who has a complex multi-level super duper operating layout. Every person will look at their scope of involvement, and justifiably so, feel theirs is the best. And it is!
From what I have, I have certain pieces that I think are outstanding for one reason or another, but it is a mix of various manufacturers. I can't say either manufacturer has a distinct advantage over the other. If I HAD to make a choice, it would be the manufacturer of the most recent piece I have purchased, and then only until the "next" item I purchase.
Don
Well guess CTT didn't like the post I was typing as it just disappeared on me will try again
Kline you have to remember there really was 3 classes of trains ( talking pre Lionel take over) you had K-line track 19, K-line, and Classic K-line basically cheap-o, Good, and excellent. I have a classic K-line which is basically a scale flatcar with 3 corvettes on it that has good weight to it but you could almost blow down the track it rolls so well. The reg K-Line is basically = to your regular Lionel trains and then your cheapo I don't know where to class it as its looks and is cheap plastic cars but most did have die cast trucks.
Williams dollar for dollar very good engines and most are super good pullers as there dual motor. Cars no real complaints other than there passenger cars don't have seats ect in them just silhouettes
Lionel again depends when your looking I like the new TMCC stuff thou only have 2 have some postwar which really like, and have some after that are good.
MTH had one got rid of it ( engine) had proto 1 Cars haven't had a problem yet but haven't really run them either do have a very nice rail-king pass set.
Weaver Have an older A&B F-unit and seem good to me even thou it has the drive shaft system and had to send the b-unit to get repaired as it was all jamming up but repair and return shipping cost $35.00 so can't complain it runs great now plane to put tmcc in them so they run better together as the one does run a little faster than the other ( both are powered) Cars only have one and it seems to be a good car again haven't run it yet as really don't have a layout.
atlas might as well bring them in but no comment as don't have any or have had any maybe someone else will bring them in for you.
To me bottom line is how you treat your stuff depends on what you get out of it yes each company has items get Thur that are basically junk but you can't see it it just has electronics or what have you problems but as a whole there all good items.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Lionel in post war and MPC era was good quality mainly. The newer Lionel because it is made in China seems to have quality issues.
The Lionel O gauge switch, 6-23010 & 23011, that has sectional pieces are pure junk to me , I had five of those defective switches! I bought an IC Central GP-7 by Lionel, around 1997 to 2000 and it was a dud as far as pulling anything, single can motor, sold it on ebay and bought my first Williams engine. Recently I just had a short in a(newer Lionel) Lionel caboose's center rail pick-up, the caboose was on a track that had command control being used.
The Williams engines when it was just Williams(before Bachmann)ran very good and had a horn or whistle installed for the lower priced engines, and the more expensive Williams came with some kind of sound system from QSI. The newer Williams, about two years before Bachmann, had the True Blast 2 horn installed. Williams and Bachmann service departments have been very helpful with issues with Williams engines.
MTH is nice but the biggest drawback is having to keep the batteries charged up, I have three PS-2 engines and one PS-1. No problems with MTH rolling stock. No problems with Atlas rolling stock either.
I have Weaver rolling stock, some freight cars, but from my experiance NO more Weaver!!! No matter what I did they derailed for me when used with Lionel or MTH. My Weaver are now shelf Kings!! In plain English NO More on the track!!
Lee F.
I have to agree with most of the replies for sure .... except the downing of K-Line ... my K-Line steamer Alleghaney is great .... as for the cars .... if taranwanderer bought the bottom end cars ... which it sounds like that's what they were maybe there is some issues ... but remember ... bottom line lionel cars are pure unrealistic looking extremely cheap made also .... glow in the dark illuminated ones especially .... It all goes back to " you get what you pay for " . I only buy the higher end k-line cars so maybe I'm spoiled . I see he made no mention of any K-Line engines blowing up as did his MTH engine ..... I'd rather tighten a nut or bolt ... which I never have had to do on K-Line than replace all the electronics ...
In my opinion, it really depens on what aspects you look at. The scale models themselves are very simular and its hard to pick one over the other just from looks. although there are a few times where I think Lionel has made a better model. In Terms of sound, I think lionel takes the cake. esspecially for steam. but, MTH offers the railking line. if you cant fit wide curves but want all the sounds and smoke of modern era trains, its perfect. One thing I think MTH has over Lionel is the selection. I tend to find alot more liverys available from MTH then from Lionel. also, they're traditional sized or railking rolling stock is usualyl better quality then Lionel's and cheaper. but honestly, I think lionel has better locomotives and has much mroe of a history so I would say lionel. but thats only my opinion. I dont have any problems with other brands.
"No childhood should be without a train!"
Well i love all my grandfathers 40s and 50s stuff the best but they dont have the stuff that the new lionel stuff has powerful steam and sound. But i really love my mth steam that really has awsome sound and awsome steam
K-Line did have some issues a few years back with the assemblies on their heavyweight passenger cars, I had one that both trucks gave out during normal use. K-Line replaced the trucks but I had to pay for shipping it to them. Another one that K-Line had problems with is the semi-scale GG-1, again the truck assemblies fall apart. While K-Line had a problem with metal fatigue due to cheap metal being used on their trains, their 027 switches were much better than Lionel's and you could get a wider engine or freight car thru a K-Line switch.
However K-Line usually acknowledged a problem and tried to correct it. Also K-Line tried a new form of track for running smaller trains on streets called Super Streets, K-Line came out with this just before 'the Lion' gobbled them up.
I have had a few problems with Lionel switches and Lionel Service Department told me they never heard of that before and would not attempt to do anything for me. That is MY REASON for being anti-Lionel!! However Williams said there was a problem with the Lionel switches by the number that I asked them about.
All bottom line "sets" have those type of cars and components ... no matter who the manufacturer is .... again " you get what you pay for " Buy your engines and cars seperately . The old days of the bullet proof lionel sets are gone forever ... feel lucky if you own any .
Im going to add my two cents to this. Havent added any MTH to my roster yet but will soon, hopefully it works out. I used to be die hard Lionel but there's a problem. When I was in the hobby awhile back u could get a nice plain jane loco for a lil over $100. Now ur paying $200+ for the same thing & the new ones arent any nicer than past ones in my opinion. Whats more, the lil guy like me cant afford $400+ for a TMCC or DCS loco plus the extras u need to run that fancy stuff. I love post war, MPC & up to the early 90s Lionel. I also love the older K-Line stuff I have too. Yes it may look cheap but until my nephew got hold of the transformer when I wasnt home, my old MP-15 was one of my best runners. Also like Williams, hard to beat the price for what u get, especially now w/bells & horn/whistle. Atlas-cant say, dont have any of that either. Far as Weaver goes, outstanding. Best part about them is atleast some of the work is done only miles from me in Northumberland, Pa. I know a couple guys there thru a friend & because they are local & right here in the US of A is why I'll be adding more of their products to my collection. Yes I know the boards & most components are made across the big pond, but I have to support what AMERICAN production we have. I heard a rumor at a shop that Lionel was bringing some of their work back here soon. If they do, I'll be buying some Lionel too.
I was going to buy the Yuengling set too but after seeing the engine up close it just reeked of "el cheapo". From what I know of Dick Yuengling & the company I dont think they chose K-Line, I think K-Line might have approached them. In either case for what the loco & cars were selling for I think the quality could have been better. I could be wrong tho.
Lionel and Williams some K-Line is excellent. I have had problems of one kind or another with 80% of my MTH so their engines are off my shopping list.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
The company that gives you a "lifetime, return to factory warranty."
If you like tinkering and working on stuff, post war Lionel would be my choice. It's pretty bullet proof, there is a lot of it around and parts are readily available.
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